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It’s All About the Customer Experience with John Roman at BattlBox

It’s All About the Customer Experience with John Roman at BattlBox

by Nick Fredrick

4 months ago

On this episode, we talk with John Roman, CEO of BattlBox, a monthly subscription for receiving hand-picked outdoor, survival, EDC and other cool gear.

Transcript from video:

hello listeners and welcome to another
episode of subscription scaled I'm your
host Nick Frederick with me today is
John Roman who is the CEO of BattlBox
John welcome to the show thanks for
having me excited to be here awesome
well we're glad to have you on here
today and you know you guys have been
around for a little while and I'm sure
there's a lot that we can learn but uh
you know for for listeners that maybe
aren't so familiar tell us a little bit
uh more about your background and how
you came to uh be a BattlBox
sure so
man my background did not suggest that I
would be in e-commerce specifically
um so my background this is my third
um to my uh
parents super proud got done with with
University and I decided I was going to
be a professional poker player that was
career one it was short-lived it was
about four and a half years and then
it's a pretty good run though yeah I
mean it's it's it it paid the bills for
for four and a half years
um so career Two
um I went into sales B2B sales
and went started at the bottom of a
publicly traded company selling
technology and um
close to a decade I I spent in that in
that space
uh towards the end of that I started
investing and I'm starting to build a
network and started investing in
companies that would cross my desk that
I would hear about and Battlbox was one
of them
um so the uh gentleman that came up with
idea with the idea Daniel went to school
with them
um and learned about Battlbox about a
week after launch invested in it and um
the the plan was kind of uh
advisement limited role we're talking
maybe a couple hours uh
um a month and it quickly turned into a
weird conundrum where
you know I was working
120 hours of a week 60 for my normal job

that's paying the bills and 60 for
battle box and the 120 was it was
growing so I had to make a decision
um I have to pick one I couldn't I
couldn't do both so I made the decision
to to jump in a battle walks full time
that's awesome well yeah so other than
working more hours than any human should
what what was the impetus that told you
that yeah I need to throw both of my
feet into Battlbox
so I had just made in in um 26 in so so

Battlbox we launched it in February
2015. so I was
um an owner at that point
and um fast forward to the beginning of
2016. I started uh I I changed jobs and
I went to the startup and um
their annual revenue was I think like 11
or 12 million
um but they were growing and my role was
to grow it pretty significantly and
you know sometimes you're oversold an
idea concept I got in realized the tech
probably was a couple years farther than
away and it was going to be it was it
wasn't going to be an easy easy uh
Journey meanwhile battle box the the
side hustle
the in the beginning of 2016 first
quarter and using that as the trajectory
and what's this here going to look like
we were going to be eight figures
um so we were right in line with the the
company that I was working for that had
a bunch of phantom equity in right it
was only going to be worth anything if
if we were acquired so it was at that
they're both the same size one I have
meaningful actual equity in
one's kind of fun
and it was uh it was a no-brainer I just
had to get the blessing from the wife
and once once I had that it was it was
Off to the Races
what was so I think you said Daniel uh
was the name of the founder what was you
know what sparked his idea or the
thought that there was a market for you
know this kind of product and maybe
again for those that don't know talk a
little bit more about what the product
actually sure so so battle box at the
time back then was
um survival and tactical gear delivered
monthly so think of fire starter to uh
premium high end knife
those those were the the types of
products and
the the idea
um it's funny when ideas like this
common when hearing the stories his
fiance at the time was getting a
Birchbox which is you know women's
um health and beauty products small
sample sizes and he'd watch her every
get this birch box and he'd see this
like excitement and process and
experience and he wanted that for
himself he's an Outdoorsman so he went
online and couldn't find it
as simple as that was like well I'm
going to come up with idea and you know
um short order a couple of weeks we had
a website on a platform called create
Joy which we're no longer on
um but it was a very simple templated
easy get it up I mean you're selling for
a month before you even have to ship
anything so back then it was the barrier
to entry was very very very minimal
um you could almost launch and then
figure out if it was a product Market
fit afterwards
yeah it was as simple as that he found
something he couldn't find for himself
to buy so he he came up with the idea
and it's obviously a lot different than
it is we've we've transformed into a
much different brand from where we were
back then but yeah yeah okay let's talk
about that a little bit talk about kind
of the evolution of the product itself I
mean you guys have several I think was
it four different types of boxes or
subscriptions that you offer now like
talk us through that Evolution sure so
so when we launched we had that we had
the same four tiers basic Advanced prune
Pro Plus they stack on top of each other
so if you if you got the Pro Plus you'll
get everything from the basic the
advanced the pro and then the additional
item with Pro Plus
so prices were a little bit less back
then just
um you know the reality of inflation
we've had to we've had to raise prices
the interesting thing is when we when we
launched it initially we really felt
like basic at the time 25 a month was
going to be The Sweet Spot majority of
customers are going to be there we'd
have the one in the 50 or the 100 and
maybe a handful in the 150. uh but the
reality is even back then
um the numbers changed a little bit back
then off the Jump about a third of our
customers were going in the Pro Plus the
150 a month box now present day it's
roughly 46 of our base
um and your highest tier and we're one
170 a month now plus sales tax
because we have to charge it now and
like the Uber majority of states and um
plus shipping so it ends up being based
on your state around 200 a month but
every that's everybody's in that in that
yeah I mean the evolution
we took a interesting approach so part
of the go-to market strategy was we we
sent out a lot of the boxes to YouTubers
and other you know um

influencers and um we just wanted to get
that content out there of showing this
box and what we found it's funny to to
date this is such a cringe thing to say
now but at the time we had a
pre-purchase survey
um which is like why would you have a
roadblock towards purchasing uh but we
had a pre-purchase survey tell us how
you found out about us before you
actually completed the transaction and
we had all your usual suspects Facebook
Twitter Instagram but we had an other
people were clicking the other about a
quarter of them were clicking either and
um this gentleman uh influencer named
current 1776 guy named Brandon current
and we quickly looked at like our
spreadsheet of who we were sending our
comp box to he wasn't on there
um he was a paying customer paying 150 a
month and he was then going on YouTube
and doing a review he had a full-time um
job and uh the HVAC space uh for decades
he had a career and at night time his
his side also was putting out this
and our customers were really
identifying with him and they really
were they just they were eating his
content that they liked him a lot uh
super personable guy great camera
presence but
he was also like this perfect battle box
customers well and we made this
so it started off Susie identified we
said hey we're gonna send you a boxer
free moving forward keep doing the
reviews and uh a few months went by and
we said hey Brandon
gotta keep doing the reviews we're gonna
give you 500 a month now just keep doing
the reviews boxes still free
you have to do this and then the next
conversations hey do you want to quit
your job move your family down to
Georgia and do this full-time we have
this crazy idea right now I was just
doing one one monthly Box review but
we've said the thought process was we
wanted to really lean into content
um we we were already building uh this
via VIA just the battle box customers
but the content piece we just saw that
it was resonating so well
we wanted to okay well Brandon's
full-time part of the team yeah we can
do the Box review but we can also pump
out all kinds of other content in the
same Outdoor Adventure space and and
that's that's what we did so he came on
full time and we went off to the races
again it's changed a lot you know his
first day he was uh cameraman
uh Talent video editor it was part of
the table he was doing it on himself now
we were fortunate we have a um we we
have a few video editors and we have a
larger team that is a so we're able to
really pump out content but at the time
it was it was just him
but we kept kept pushing this content
piece and kept pushing on community
building and we started to see a lot of
our success from that
um you look at
uh and this is probably this is so much
true now in today's economic climate but
it was true back then as well you look
at a product on the need want scale and
you know unfortunately Battlbox some
could argue it's it's on the Need side
but for a lot they're going to argue
it's on the want side it's not Mission
critical it's not toothpaste or oil
paper or food
um it's it's not a necessarily an
essential and when something is closer
on the watt scale
consumers really want to identify with
that brand they want to buy from brands
with their disposable income that they
feel some kind of connection to in the
easiest way to do that is is through
community building so when Roy just
leaned leaned into that
and continued building content we fast
um it took several years to do and
there's a lot of rejection along the
journey but we had a Netflix TV show
um Netflix original series called
Southern survival it's literally
us testing product to determine if it
goes in a battle box which is basically
a commercial
and um that combo so that premiered in
July 2020 which was a few months into
the pandemic when right um econ brands
are already striving I'm driving and uh
it was just a a perfect storm both of
this back to back and it really just
exponentially grew us
one so it sounds like that that that's
just kind of just the core of your go to
market is is that community and
everybody who kind of comes into that
kind of seeing Battlbox right in the
middle of it absolutely so um you'll
you know relatively we're we're a decent
decent sized company
um but some of our Behavior with the
community is very unusual so we a few
years ago we we had a bulletin board
very Reddit ask
um group that was for for members only
and we now we converted that migrated
that over to a Facebook group which
um some people aren't crazy about
Facebook groups but it works for us so
if you're an active subscriber you can
be in that Facebook group and not
everybody joins not everybody sees the
value or has the time or wants to wants
to be a part of the community some
people just want the gear but if you're
in that community and not everybody is I
think we have maybe seven eight thousand
members in there
um but in that Facebook group
earlier this morning I was in there
chatting it up with people in comments
um there's not really a member of our
leadership team that isn't in there in
some sort of regular Cadence interacting
with customers
um it's it's the ultimate accountability
too like if we if we drop the ball and a
product is lackluster not exciting or
maybe we didn't bet a product low enough
and included in the Box
um we've created and it's a it's a
double-edged sword
um but we've created this this culture
where customers are are comfortable
tagging me in a post
which is that's awesome it's awesome
it's also
um sometimes there's some anxiety around
that we had uh sure we had a product in
the last box that that I got tagged in
multiple times and um
but it forced it it forced him
accountability and from transparency and
I looked at what they were saying and I
we my team reached out to the vendor and
clarified and I got to come back to them
with hey we heard you we listened here's
the information we found out and you
just don't get that with with brands in
general right it's easy it's easy when
you're a one-man shop and you know
there's no other team members and you're
not scaling something to significance
whether that's seven eight or nine
figures but to have that interaction
it's also such a good feeling like to
interact with the actual customers that
are making you able to live
um live this dream of a job yeah you
know it's interesting I mean we talk
about this a lot on this show but that
that power of community that
subscription brands have because they're
they're they're not just a product
they're kind of around a concept or idea
or or just a group in and of themselves
that kind of have a common cause is so
much different different than
subscribe and save or something like
that where you're just getting a product
on repeat no matter what it is right
like that's just a vendor selling a
product this is about people who care
about the outdoor survival whatever
right that are are in living breathing
that every single day and transactional
companies cannot compete with that right
that's that's just not something they do
so you guys being in the middle of that
you know from the leadership group on
down I I mean that just shows even your
customers how dedicated you are to that
right and spot on yeah it's a really
good point so it to us it's all about
the customer experience
um we have a huge value prop they're
spending called 200 after sales tax and
shipping for this product and it's
probably if they Source it on their own
it could be 300 350 right that's a nice
value prop we never lead with that we
don't really talk about it too much
occasionally you might see it on our
site when we're doing an a b or
multivariate testing or we might see
something in an ad but it's by no means
what we lead with and it's such a it
would be an easy easy thing to lead with
it's a great value prop spend 200 get 50
um but we but we avoid that because we
want to make it more about the
experience and that's just icing on the
cake but by taking that approach it's it
arguably is it's tough to compete with
well even even though you're giving
products at a discount right your
customers don't really know what they're
going to get each month so you guys have
to be damn sure that you're going to
deliver value to these uh you know your
subscribers each month I'm sure you feel
like you get it wrong sometimes but at
the same time you know the Lifeboat of
your company is is making sure that you
get this right right
yeah and and so and and that's kind of
uh we're very transparent with that that
we are humans we we aren't perfect we
are literally putting things in place
with learnings on how to improve
um and we we started this year
um every so every uh monthly box is
called a mission for us so we're sending
out we just we just completed shipping
on Mission 98.
um and starting at the beginning of this
year so I I guess 90
95 on every box uh moving forward has at

least one item in it out of that you
know six to seven items typically that
are in the box has at least one item
that's a customer recommendation
one of our customers actually submitted
that we have a few ways for them to do
it submitted this product to us we got
samples we tested it we hope thank
goodness Rebrand negotiate a price that
made sense for a business standpoint and
then we send it out everybody and we'll
highlight it in that in the
um booklet hey this is from
Charlie from Chicago yeah it's it's
funny that's awesome yeah I mean not
only well number one you're Outsourcing
procurement that's pretty cool but
number two you know that what that does
for customer engagement has got to be
yeah I mean it and it's it's
it serves so many purposes it really is
something where it's pretty exciting
just to be able to take tangible take
customer feedback like that and actually
implement it and it's it's because of
the transparency it's obvious like you
could go to the members only group and
see where that customer submitted that
item so it's a pretty it's just a pretty
cool experience
but certainly well you touched on this a
little bit you said you launched that
Series right right in the middle of
covet there most of the uh
Online subscription physical good
companies that I've talked to during
cobit you know it was absolute hockey
stick right
um You said that you know maybe you guys
lean a little bit more towards a one
item that I have to have type of item
but what happened to you guys you know
throughout kova did you see just the
huge spike in demand that other Ecom
subscription companies saw yeah we we
um so it started in in March March of
2020 all of a sudden we were able to
acquire customers for um better CPAs
we're getting more organic
um literally any metric you're trying to
scale and grow with was looking better
um it's we we were unique that it didn't
happen to us
um sending sending out to our adventure
gear fared while we another brand we
have carnivore club uh which is monthly
artisanal Meats cured shelf Stables I
think salamis prosciutos that was that
um more than doubled in in the covid
period because needs delivered to your
door like that's like literally the a
pandemic perfect especially cured meats
right absolutely so yeah we we we saw
the growth
um we knew that at some point there had
to be a a normalization though so we
just continued investing in the the the
content and Community piece just simply
we we want to grow
um we're we're acquiring new customers
organically as well
um just to be less dependent on
um the Facebooks The Meadows of the
world right I mean I'm sure every a lot
of people listening to this
know about the iOS issue right like that
cause a huge headache for so many Brands
and people that were all in and 90 of
their traffic was coming from Facebook
or Instagram they were in trouble
um so a couple of things one we've
always been Diversified not always but
for the past
five years we we try to not have a
single lead Source greater than
um than a sixth which 16.6 percent now
we might have a campaign scaling that's
doing amazing right and in the short
term it might scope it might be it might
be 40 50 of our new acquisition but were
in in the in the longer run when you
normalize the data we're not trying to
have any single lead Source being be
being greater than a six
well let's talk about those channels for
a second what what channels are working
for you guys and where do you see the
trend going right what what of those do
you see kind of you're going to invest
more maybe time and effort and resources
in or maybe ones that you're looking to
Sunset sure
um so
you know we we thought we were late to
the game with Tick Tock we jumped into
Tick Tock pretty hard in uh February
2021 so a little over two years ago it
the first year was was really difficult
we weren't seeing much success and then
we saw this like we some little wins
along the way but then we eventually saw
this Tipping Point where it went from
not even a top five source for us to now
it's constantly battling for the number
one spot
um with that YouTube Perez has been been
a major major Channel
um for a couple of reasons one we sent
out so many so many boxes we're getting
all this all these reviews and we're
putting out content and then really what
we saw call it
a little over a year ago when
um alphabet and made a both
Google and Facebook both were concerned
with Tick Tock and the steam it was
getting their algorithms both started
playing really nice to short form video
um YouTube shorts and Instagram
Instagram reels and once um both of them
started treating it like it was a little
bit better than traditional content we
were already producing this short form
for tick tock so we already had the
content so we started posting across on
all platforms and that really gave us a
boost on on YouTube a substantial piece
on YouTube we were gaining about 500
subscribers a month slow and steady for
years we were at about 50 a little over
50 000 subscribers on there and when we
doubled down and leaned in hard on the
YouTube shorts uh I think this
we're over six hundred thousand we might
be over 650
000 subscribers on YouTube right now
um which is which is to me insane and
Tick Tock we have a little bit more
um I think we're 750 000 both were
trying to get both to over a million
this year that's kind of our our
short-term goals for both but
Facebook and Instagram still they're
still in the Wheelhouse they're not
going anywhere for us
it's just they're just a little bit more
of a challenge these days what's your
sense of those you know tremendous
subscriber volume across those uh those
platforms what's your sense of how many
of those are transacting with you either
buying a subscription or buy I think you
guys saw one all products as well right
you have the e-commerce site
um how many of those are actually do you
think you're you're monetizing
not not as many as we would hope for so
the the organic approach is so much
different when it when you're looking at
metrics and you know you're looking at
uh you know a traditional paid Facebook
ad where you're you you want this
um CPC uh or CPN that you're comfortable
with and you expect that you need to
convert two percent of that traffic
um because it's targeted traffic
um the organic piece is it's a little
bit of a slower slower burn and they not
as many convert some people are just
fans but it's it it ends up
accomplishing the same thing but it's a
fraction it's a fraction of that
it's not even comparable to like the
normal stuff we do from advertising I'm
sure you as the CEO see those tremendous
numbers and are constantly thinking
about hey how can I open up that fossil
a little bit more and kind of kind of
get them over in there is there anything
in particular that's worked for for
doing that for getting them in
um no so I mean you know we we don't
we're using all these channels
um the content isn't we're not hard
selling we're not saying buy this
product now there's yeah there are there
are the occasional sales videos and and
sales content but it's it's it's the
exception not the rule and it's um it's
just a softer softer approach and we
have content on our site a bunch of art
we do
um a dozen articles a month on just
stuff about the outdoors and adventuring
camping and hiking and um we're we have
videos and you can see all the past
boxes on our site so we do have stuff
that's that's light
um light ctas to get people to our site
um once they get to our site though it's
it's normally Commerce right we're it's
it's all of the the normal funnels and
we're trying to close them and there's
product abandonment and collection
abandonment and SMS abandonment and
whatever whatever you could think of
we're trying so at that point once we
get them in there
um on this site and they're in our
ecosystem it's it's normal normal rules
of of the game
okay so then kind of going towards the
the end of the cycle here what are you
guys seeing in terms of lifetime value
like how how long are your members
staying and then maybe let's just talk a
little bit about retention too right
what are you guys doing when you know
there is customer breakage very for
either voluntary or involuntary reasons
what kind of tactics do you guys have in
place sure so so we typically see our um
duration of a customer being
um a little over seven months
now our our LTV and I guess people

LTD lifetime value are you looking at
that as like top line revenue Associated
from a customer or profit it's a really
good question I've had some healthy
debates with the pricing experts around
how to look at that and you know looking
at it is just top line revenue it's a
metric but if it you know if the cost of
product delivery and acquisition costs
is 99 of that then who gives a crap
right it's like well it doesn't really
matter that much so you know usually
against at least some gross margin I I
think is the most valuable
so we um so if we're talking
um lifetime value from a spend
um our customers spend right at right
under a thousand dollars 990 ish
um slight fluctuations but poor 980.992
yeah it's it's it's pretty cool um so so

675 to 700 of it is subscription revenue
and the other 300 and change is one time
ancillary products so just we have about
500 excuse on our site
um that aren't aren't subscription based
now when we're talking about
um margin we're typically uh it's it's
about 300 in in profit
um after after the death settles on
yeah that's that's still healthy that's
that's pretty good well we'll talk a
little bit too about retention on the
subscription side right when
maybe what we probably need to address
volunteering and voluntary separately
but yeah uh if if it's a customer saying
hey you know just coming in to cancel
are you guys doing anything to try to
save or what's your philosophy around
hey make it easy frictionless let them
cancel because that increases the
likelihood that they're going to come
back I mean how do you guys view that
sure so so we went down down the rabbit
hole of retention both both tight and
both passive and active churn we went
down this Rabbit Hole pre-covet
um when it wasn't it wasn't cool back
then people weren't really talking about
it then
um but we we spent and we're still
honing in and we make improvements every
couple of months to our current process
um so I I do agree that it should be
easy to cancel if you if you make it
difficult they have to call a number if
if it becomes problematic that person
isn't put yourself in their shoes
they're not going to want to return ever
and given an opportunity they might talk
negatively about your brand
um so so we we don't make it super
difficult we do have um so when we're
talking about active churn
so a battle Box customer has has their
dashboard they log into their account
um they see you know past orders and
they have kind of a a
a dashboard of things they can changes
they can make
um so when that pops up there's a cancel
button on the bottom right
they hit that
so what happens is next is dependent on
a few things so we
um we do have some some calm retention
offers to keep customers but they have
to check uh certain criteria to see that
so they have to have over a certain
amount of renewals with us first
um they also have have to have never
done one of these retention offers
um if if if their renews are down and
they've or they've already done one of
these offers before they click cancel
it's going to ask them a simple
um why with you know five different
and then click submit in your dot
subscription canceled
um if if uh you know you've had several
renewals and you haven't done one of
these retention offers previously we're
going to position
um in in it's depending on what they're
doing we have about five different
options at any given time but we swap
stuff out on when we're testing of some
sort of retention offer to to keep keep
that person
um it could be a free item it could be a
discount off their next box
um depending on their behavior it might
just tell them hey did you know you can
actually just skip a month instead of
having to cancel
um so a bunch of different options it's
it's something we're actually putting
some stuff in place hopefully by the end
of this month to take
um to take it to a next level
um we'll we'll swap and we'll put we'll
want to better understand why they're
canceling first
so that we can really have a Taylor
solution based on based on their answer
that's more in line with with meeting
meeting the needs of the problem right
um if it's a monetary issue maybe give
them some other frequencies or a a
um but if it's something else we can
address that too so well it's I would
give us it's probably more our current
um churn active churn dashboard
retention tool I would say is probably
better than most
um at this point but I think there's
serious room for improvement
um because if you can really customize
it even further based on why that
customer is there today wanting to
um I think It ultimately leads to a
better customer experience and even if
you don't get even if they you let them
cancel and they cancel that day you
still made it easy
um but you're also getting insights that
could be used maybe to position uh
offering to them later that might make
sense or it could be learnings that are
um of of maybe substance and size and we
need to say okay we have this many
people customers canceling for this
specific reason maybe it's a US problem
and not a customer problem
so excited about that
um when it when it comes to passive
churn uh
I hate passage churn but it is it is
what it is
um so we we go we we renew all customers
on the 15th of the month so from the
15th to the 26th we're going through the
normal Dunning process
um they're going to get in that in that
uh that window a 12-day window they're
going to get
um five emails from us and a text
um one of the emails is from our from
Luke our head of customer service
um I believe one of them's for me one of
them's from Brandon car in the face of
our brand all all in ones from the
warehouse guys wanting to know what what
are you doing with your box uh but it's
very all all the emails are very on
um it's it's humanizing because it's
actual people
and uh it we've seen success with that
SMS obviously serves this purpose who
knows our emails could be hitting the
spam voter so it just allows another
easy one one link one click touch to
update their cartoon file
um after the Dunning process we don't
cancel the customer out completely yet
we um our CS team who's an export of the
people that failed during the renewal
Dunning and then they reach out manually
they're using um some scripts but
they're reaching out from our CS
platform making sure is there anything
else we can do to help Blake like not
even like hey you need to fix your car
like do you want us to like help you do
you want us to like put your renewal out
a little bit like are you having a
banking issue like help us understand
the problem
um because we probably ran into it
before and we can maybe offer offer a
solution to it
um and they they do that for about seven
and um and then at that point it's
unfortunately the subscription is is we
we cancel it out or manually on our side
do you have any insights as you go into
that cure process through Dunning and
Outreach all of those things like what
do you actually recover from from that
yeah yeah so so on the 15th
unfortunately on about 10 to 12 of our
cards fail
um so during the during the Dunning
process of uh the 15th to the 26th we
end up recovering 72 percent of them
um which is of 10 to 12. okay yeah so
yeah so it's a it's a healthy recovery
rate yeah on at that point
so so you know we're three-ish Forest
percent still still failing
um at at the point where Luke's team the
Cs team takes it and they start reaching
out we we recover another 50 so we end
up getting getting that number south of
um which which for us is is a win
um and I don't remember what we can move
the needle on it yeah I I mean but
that's in my experience of working with
all kinds of different subscription
brands that are that are all card
at 97 98 you know aggregated collection
or Patriot rate is pretty tremendous
especially given you know your far
higher ticket than the average
subscription business I mean that that
that's a testament to those processes
right there because that that's kind of
unheard of so then we have something
so wait there's more wait there's more
so this is the craziest thing is it the
date frame doesn't make sense but we've
tested all that all the time frames so
in the 90 to 120 day window since that
customer is left
um they hit a category is it part of an
export and Patrick are our win back
specialist picks up the phone and calls
them and gives them uh again certain
criteria certain tiers certain um
overall spend with us certain amount of
um so not everybody reaches this but if
if it was you know arguably a high value
customer to us
um Patrick on our our RCS team picks up
the phone and calls and on the it's uh
it said 90 to 120 day window which
doesn't make sense it to me it didn't I
was like oh it's gonna be this will work
best when it's fresh when it's like a
couple weeks fresh from canceling that
right right
um but we did the whole Gambit of
testing and testing enough to get rid of
like mathematical variants
um all the different ranges up to over a
year and then 90 to 120 day for some
reason performs enough to
know that it's not an error like it is
the best window
um so he reaches out of time for a
customer to realize how much they miss
it get in the Box possibly I've uh I've
I've tried to wrap my head around it and
I I can't but I but that's probably that
actually makes sense that could that
could be the reason
um but so he reaches out and and he's um

you know it's not a it's not a needle
mover but he's he's typically bringing
back 75
customer customers back
um and once they come back they um this
is a new program for us it's only eight
months old
um but all the data
um suggests is suggesting they're
um on like past traditional LTV marks
yeah which is much interesting yeah I I
mean you know customers don't pay for a
variety of reasons right and some of it
may very well be I just didn't have
money and I was embarrassed and we
didn't want to reach out or talk about
it right whatever you get 90 day 90 to
100 days down the road they're in a
different spot and they're like yeah I
really actually like that thing and I do
miss getting it and then you know but
that that's an Engaged customer for sure
right the one that would respond to that
anyway so it kind of makes sense right
that they would stick around a lot
longer but that's that's incredible
Insight right there that's that's
valuable information
yeah cool well John I've truly enjoyed
this conversation and I appreciate you
going into the weeds there and kind of
you know giving us some background into
those insights that like I said those
are some uh amazing metrics you guys
should be really proud of
um but for any of the listeners who want
to learn more about Battlbox or any
other brands um or maybe have some
questions about some some of the things
we talked about today where where can
they go
um so I'm I'm most active on LinkedIn
please I I don't know I just I I like
um I'm I'm on the other platforms but
but LinkedIn is kind of my go-to
um I have a Blog called
I literally just share stuff stuff
that's but not just the victories
um I don't like when all I'm reading are
about are people winning I I like when
you know we failed at something but
there was a lesson learned and we are
now smarter because of it so I've
journeyed a few things on there
um the first year of tick tock we've got
our teeth kicked in and I documented a
lot of that the learnings we were
getting from it
um so I'm pretty pretty much of an open
book on on the blog
um and then our site battle box the
um you can also go to Netflix go to the
search bar type in Battlbox and you can
see our TV show
a little again John thanks so much
really appreciate this has been valuable
information for uh all of our listeners
um so appreciate you coming on the show
today thanks for having me Nick this is