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Breakdown BattlBox’s Customer Obsession Mission with John Roman, CEO ┃ Stord Supply Chain Therapy

Breakdown BattlBox’s Customer Obsession Mission with John Roman, CEO ┃ Stord Supply Chain Therapy

by Michelle McNamara Alex Kent

7 months ago

Is it possible to retain customer loyalty through unprecedented global shipping disruptions? John Roman, CEO of BattlBox and Carnivore Club, knows with full confidence that it is. Hear how his team doubled down on their commitment to their customers in this week's episode.

Transcript from video:

It's just such a better feeling if someone proactively reaches out instead
of taking a reactive approach. You just don't feel important. You feel like
you're just a number on a spreadsheet, which is the exact opposite of
both how we feel about our customers and how we want them to
feel, which is extremely valued. Alright, welcome to another episode of

Supply Chain Therapy. I am your host, Alex Kent, joined my co host,
Michelle McNamara. Michelle, what's going on? How are we? Doing well today.

I am so excited for today's episode. We have a phenomenal guest today,

John Roman, CEO of BattlBox and Carnivore Club.
John definitely has quite the resume. After leading several successful sales
orgs and telecom and software, he turned his attention to e commerce.
Once he heard that his college friend was launching a survival and outdoor
subscription box, as one does, he knew he had to be involved.
While he began as an investor, the rapid growth of BattlBox facilitated
him joining full time as CMO and now CEO. John, thank you so
much for joining us. How are you? Good. Thanks so much for having
me. I'm excited to be here too. Awesome. Well, this is Supply Chain
Therapy after all, so let's kick it off with a collective deep breath.
So we inhale, and we exhale. I'm so much better now,

thank you. That's what we're here for. All right, let's jump right in.

So this is Supply Chain Therapy. Alex and I, we just love the
drama, so I think we should start with something a little bit dramatic
here. John, do you have any stories of hardships or challenges that you've
had to overcome at BattlBox? Yeah, I mean to keep things

on theme, supply chain was a huge challenge for us in

the second half, the latter part of 2020,
really, and the majority of 2021. It was this, I hate to use the

word, new normal, but there was this new normal of what lead times
look like. Once something is on the water, we're sitting outside

Long Beach, the expectations of it getting through into our facility really

changed. So it was a constant nightmare for about 18 months,

which was funny because when the pandemic happened and people were talking
about supply chain issues, we weren't having any.
And we went pretty well into the pandemic without

thinking we were gonna have one, and then all of a sudden
we started feeling it towards the end of
2020, and then it was just how it was after that.

Were you set up more to ongoing success at the beginning of 2020?
I mean, I just remembered, I know all of us do,
of the toilet paper nightmares, paper towel nightmares. Were you just set
up in a way that you didn't have that pain at the beginning
and it caught up to you? What kind of goes into that?
I don't necessarily think so. We weren't working out

as far out ahead and aggressively as we do now,
as we were forced to because of the supply chain
issues. We were working out based on what the timeframes were pre COVID,

and they were just still working. They were working and we were like,
"Oh, we should plan out further ahead," but the reality is,
there wasn't a need to because the turnaround times were remaining the same.
So then they just stopped working and stopped being the same,
and 120 days wasn't 120 days anymore. 120 was 180, or 210,

or 240. So unfortunately, and it wasn't like it was for all of

our suppliers and vendors. Some, for the most part, went unscathed,

and some didn't without any necessary rhyme or reason,
at least from our end. I'm sure there were reasons, but,
yeah, it wasn't a problem until it was a problem.
Yeah, and for subscription boxes, what is nice is there is a lot
that you can plan, sort of the demand is expected, and so that
does make certain aspects of supply chain easier. But then

there are still certain challenges, of course, and maybe, 'cause we haven't
talked about BattlBox yet, maybe you can give a little bit of the
spiel of what is BattlBox and then some of the challenges specifically that
you guys were facing. Sure. So BattlBox is in the genre of mystery

box. So our consumers, our customers do not know what they're receiving.

It's survival outdoor camping adventure gear. So anything from an axe to

a tent, to a cool fire starter, to maybe some sort of flashlight device.

It's everything in that gamut. But to what I stated at the beginning,
it is a mystery, and it's not mystery in the sense that,

Michelle, you're a customer, Alex, you're a customer, you guys are gonna
get the exact same box. Taking it a step further, so we do
have tiers. So our basic, which is $35 a month, up to our
pro plus, that's $170 a month, and for both of these is plus sales tax,
plus shipping. So you might have a higher tier box, but you're gonna

get everything from the lower tier boxes. So with certainty,
Michelle, you could be in a pro plus, and Alex, you can be
in the basic level, but you both are getting everything from the basic
box. Taking it a step further, we're strategic with how we ship because
we want all customers to get the box around the same time because
of the surprise element, and because of that,
Michelle, you're right, there's some great parts of
subscription because it's easier to forecast, but the reality is it's

the amount we're ordering no one has on the shelf for the most
part. So these are typically custom manufactured runs. So when you start

running into supply chain issues, it's a major issue because you're only

as strong as your weakest link, and if we're missing an item that's
in the basic box, that means we can't build basic, advanced,
pro or pro plus. In turn, we can't build any boxes.
So at that point, it's a larger problem. We're basically halted.
We can't do anything at all until that one item gets there.
Quick aside, you mentioned axe. What have been some of the most exciting
products, the ones that have been the most popular over the years?
Is axe one of them? That's wild. Axe, we've sent out a couple

axes. We actually just sent out an axe last month,
which we've sent out a few. We've sent out a couple of single
man tents, we've sent out a two man tent, which,
from a shipping logistical side of the house,

yeah, I'm sure operations didn't appreciate that one
too much. Its, shipping costs alone would have been a good reason not

to like it. But twice we've sent out a take down bow,
so think like Robin Hood bow and arrow. Oh my gosh. But a take
down bow where it's quickly... It's very small and compact, and then you

build it. We've sent out a couple of those. Those have done really
well. Yeah, there's typically at least one, like some sort of exciting

item each month. That's awesome. I might not share this episode with my
husband 'cause I'm not sure. We might be your next customer.
I'm already thinking about it. If I got a bow and maybe some
arrows in a mystery box, that's like Christmas in February or March for
me. Totally. That'd be awesome. Love it. And you see that,
you see people, literally adults, kid in the candy store,
they're sending us, dropping as photos, they're in the backyard and the
box couldn't have been delivered 10 minutes earlier. Yeah, I know we were
gonna touch on this a little bit later, but talk about that customer
experience and how important that is, not only for your brand to continue
to grow in that unboxing experience, but all the work that goes into
it in curating that box and then having that so that they are
surprised? They're all getting at the same day.
How important is that to BattlBox? So it's one of the most important

things. On the prep call, we were talking about content and community.
So these are two pillars that we really lead by, and there's not a part
of the business that we make a decision on that doesn't take both
of those in a consideration. And a big part of community,
besides the obvious piece, is this Facebook group, where
it's a members only perk, so you have to be an active subscriber
to be in there. Not all customers are in there, but we have
a decent amount, I think last count, probably somewhere in the 8000
or so, 8500 maybe of our active subscribers are in there,
and it truly functions like a community. The cool thing is that it
runs without us there. It just literally is taking these like minded people,
people that love the great outdoors, love to get outside, whether it's going
on a hike or actually camping. It's the full range, and

they're forging friendships in there, which is pretty cool.
Whether it's trading, maybe people are trading some BattlBox items, maybe
they're trading items that they bought on their own,
or they're scheduling meet ups or just sharing best practices,

it's pretty cool, and it's honestly a little contagious from an energy level

to watch it in motion. But I say all of that to
get back to your question, it's of the utmost importance. So

there's this value statement of the BattlBox product and, yeah, so you're
in the pro plus, you're paying, call it, $170 a month plus sales
tax, shipping, depending on your state, you're probably somewhere right
around $200. And yes, you're likely gonna get, call it, $350 worth of gear

if you were to buy it on your own, and that's a huge
value statement, but we don't really upsell on that. We don't position that.

That's, to us, icing on the cake. We're really positioning

our product more as an experience. It's less about the product.
It's more about the experience, about the community, about the content,
about the fact that our entire team is in that Facebook group and

readily available and functioning almost as extended family, than someone

sending you an axe. Yeah, so kinda going back, because of the content
and community piece, knowing that you are going to have delays for future
boxes, how do you approach that to continue with that kind of the

importance of the community, and I'll call them your fans, the BattlBox
members that are looking forward to that box?
Quite simply, radical transparency. One of the fortunate thing is trying

to find silver linings in the last few years of
COVID, but the whole delays in shipments, everybody was feeling it.

By the time we were feeling it, it was extremely normalized,
and really the litmus test on how normalized something is in today's culture
is, are there memes about it? It was talked about
in most media sources, so it was understood,

and with it being understood, the gap of having to educate the consumer

was extremely abridged and shortened. So we said, "Okay,

we're just gonna tell them exactly what's happening."
Some could argue, are we over sharing? And our view point is,
if this is over sharing, we're just gonna over share, and
we hope that this connection, this community that we have
will appreciate that we're just keeping it 100 and we're just telling them

how it is. And we did that. We said, "Hey,
we're waiting on this one item. We don't wanna ruin it for you,
but it's... " Maybe we'll give some kind of slight teaser to it,

"But it was supposed to be off this boat
three weeks ago, and it's still sitting at port, it's been sitting at port
for the past three weeks, and we're hearing that it might be another
week," and we'd give them the break down of when we're expecting it,
and then holding ourselves accountable a little bit in the sense that,
"Okay, we'll be providing an update either as soon as we have another

one, or within the next week." Before, and even now,
having something come late was the exception, not the rule. It had completely

flip flopped and it was the exception that everything was gonna come in
on time for such a long stem. As a consumer myself,

that's what I would look forward to. If something is gonna be delayed,
don't let me... Don't make me go and reach out and say,
"Where's my package? Did you forget about me? What's going on here?"
It's more like, if you can get in front of it,
I'm in there, "Okay, I get it." And maybe that's because I'm in
the industry, but I think a lot of consumers are like that.
They're just being proactive, and that radical transparency, as you were
saying, is important not only for the brand, but it saves you that
customer service call that you're having to take and then track down in
order too. If you're just proactive and say, "Hey, we're gonna have delays,"
I'm not making that call, right? Yeah, and I don't think it's because
you're in the industry, or we're in the industry, I think it's us
wearing the hat as the consumer, right? And it's just such a better
feeling if someone proactively reaches out instead of reactively answer,

"Oh yeah, we're having delays." You just don't feel important. You feel
minimized. You feel like you're just a number on a spreadsheet,
which is the exact opposite of both how we feel about our customers,

and two, how we want them to feel.
'Cause we actually want them to feel how we feel about them,
which is extremely valued, and that is just...
Nothing says you're not valued more than taking a reactive approach.
It's like, if the same can be said when we're on the other
side of the business and we're looking at
vendors and tech partners, and partners that we use,

shit's gonna go wrong. The question is, how do you respond to it?

And how do you take it to resolution? How do you communicate that?
That's where the separation is, and yeah, I guess we got it right when

we decided to take that approach. Yeah, I think content, community,

that does really... I think the bottom layer of that is showing that
you care. You care about them, so you wanna build that community and
you want to communicate effectively with them. I think that BattlBox is

truly differentiated with their content and community. A lot of brands say
that that's important, but I think you guys really do some best in
class work. Can we talk a little bit first around how you tie
in content and community into the supply chain process, the delivery process,
like that piece? Sure. So our procurement process of products

is constantly evolving, constantly getting better and stronger,

self learning, if you will, process. We're learning from our mistakes.

And through that process, we've built in easy ways to check a couple

of boxes, one, for the procurement process, but two, get content.
So we have these multiple funnels of how we source new product,

and it's from the suspects you would think; vendors, manufacturers that

wanna be in our box, internal procurement team, things that they find,

things that employees find, but big surprise, our largest funnel is what

customers are telling us they want. So regardless of what funnel it comes
in, it eventually gets to the point where
we need samples to see if this product is gonna check the boxes
and ultimately get the BattlBox stamp of approval, because once we've put
in a product, we're kind of putting it in a box,
we're kind of standing behind that product to a certain degree.
It doesn't matter that we didn't make it. We're saying, "This is good
enough for us, so we're sending it to you." So it's gotta be
of a certain standard. So in that process of us getting the products

and testing them, part of, if anybody's listening, this is as seen in the

Netflix show of ours, the whole premise is we're testing gear to determine

if it goes in a BattlBox. Well, this is actually
how the sausage is made. This is how we're doing it.
So product comes in and Brandon Currin, the face of BattlBox, he goes

and he test the gear. And at the same time of testing the
gear, big surprise, we're filming it, and it serves so much,

so many purposes. One, it's giving us content. Two, it's easily shareable

by him to the rest of the procurement team that makes the decision
on if a product is gonna make it to the next step.
Three, sometimes we'll not be sure of a product, like we feel good
about it, but we're not all in on it. So we'll share a
snippet of that content to our customers, and we're very open ended,

"What do you guys think? Should this go in a BattlBox?" And
surprisingly, they tell us their opinion, if they like it or not,

and if we get a lot of blow back and a lot of
comments and engagement that are negative, okay, well, they've kind of answered
it for us, it doesn't make it to the next step.
We were a little bit on the fence. Now, we know with certainty. Excellent.
Alright, now don't think I forgot about the Netflix show. I really wanna
get into it now. Okay. I just nonchalantly dropped it... Yeah, right? No

big deal. Oh yeah, the Netflix show. Sorry, I forgot.
So let's talk about it. Supply chain, of course. So I am kind
of curious, how did you prepare for the inevitable influx of orders?

What did that process look like? A complete and utter

nightmare. Lucky, we threw a dart at a number and apparently we had

played darts before, and if you've played dart before or even if you
haven't, occasionally you get a bull's eye and
we somehow nail the number, so it was really, really difficult.
So there was the obvious piece of concern because we had a July

erring, so really, we're having to make decisions on these products of this

optic, we're having to make those decisions arguably around the time of

March, where the pandemic is really just hyper hockey stick up

of uncertainty and scariness. And yeah, that was the time to make that

decision on products, to take it a step further, there was no

use case of what to expect, right. You had people... Everybody loved to

give an opinion on what they thought the number would be,
the fundamental problem is, when you asked any of them, well, how are you
coming up with this? No one had an answer, no one had a
data point they could point to. So it was literally just a bunch
of best guesses and you could say educated guesses. But were they?

So the show in its premise is testing gear to determine if it

goes in BattlBox, so it truly functions like a commercial for us,
but obviously it's spoofed up a little bit for a TV.

Entertaining. Yeah. That's awesome. Entertaining. Has to have entertainment
value, but the premise is still there. So we knew that there was

gonna be a... I just saw the truck go by. I know. The forklift. I was

waiting for it the whole time. Sorry. No, I'm excited. I wanted to

see it. Try and get away. Speaking of entertaining. Yeah. So the big

thing is, the reality is, let's do a commercial
for us of us testing gear to determine if it goes in a
BattlBox which, guess what? You can buy at, and everybody is

wearing BattlBox shirt, so it serves this purpose, so we knew there was
gonna be an uptick, but we had never seen
something like this previously. The best closest thing to a case study,
which I'll explain why it isn't was Duck Dynasty, where they had that
duck call business that completely blew up, but that was traditional television,

every Wednesday it came on, but it was one episode,
and I don't know how many seasons, how many episodes are in a
season, but somewhere in the 10 to 20 range. Right?
And it was a slow build. While the Netflix model is,

especially during July of 2020, which was coming off of the phenomenon of

'Tiger King' that apparently everybody watched. It was this binge,

this binge phenomenon where you're gonna watch our show, if you're gonna
watch it, you're likely gonna... Eight episodes, 30 minutes. So just not
a big time commitment, you're gonna binge through that in likely a couple
of nights, some people will knock it out in one, most will knock
it out in two to four, and then it's done, you're moving on
to the next thing you can binge. So
there wasn't this case study of a way to see what
a quick ingestion of that type of show does.
So there is no way to really measure. You could take,
okay, well, what did Duck Dynasty do in it's entire full season,
but it's still not apples to apples, so long story short,

we just try to make an educated guess, but at the same time,
we put some new process in place to limit...
Limit the risk. So previously, you sign up for a BattlBox subscription,

and we had switched different models, at one point, there was a welcome
box that you would get for your first month, we had pivoted away
from that and you were just getting the current box,
and we decided to put something in place
where post check out after purchase, thanking them on the confirmation page

was a choose your first BattlBox, and these were three options which we

still use today that we can dynamically change in real time based on

inventory levels, customer experience, whatever variable it is,

change it and then Michelle, you check out 10 seconds from now you're
seeing this new option, so we use that as a way to...

We knew that if we missed the number two by too much,

that we could use this to kind of alleviate that issue,
we got lucky and we didn't... We didn't need to,
but it was a great tool to have kind of in case of
emergency. Yeah. That's super interesting. I mean, I do think the old way

was build the community first, then monetize like the Duck Dynasty example,

and you're really building a case study around create the community and
monetize and build that product at the same time, 'cause right now we're
in this stage of... You have their attention now. You need to capitalize

on it because tomorrow they're gonna be on to the next thing,
you need to be kind of ready in that moment. That's super cool.
Let's circle back to supply chain for subscription boxes.

One of the key pieces is having a consistent customer experience across

every box, and can you talk a little bit about how you ensure
that consistency and that ultimate customer experience? Yeah, so

it's not easy, right? I think we always, obviously have to lead and

take that into consideration, but we're constantly re measuring it.
I think the best way... And this is a generalized answer by design,
'cause I think a generalized answer is best here for whatever specific brand

you have and you're managing and you're trying to provide a good customer
experience, that customer experience piece is always gonna be slightly different.
Right. It's gonna be something that actually speaks to your audience,
that's the given. And that's the variable that's different, what should
always be the same is re measuring and how do you re measure,

right? Talk to your customers, get feedback, whether it's via surveys,

doing the small case studies where it seems crazy and you can argue
it's inefficient, but picking up the phone and calling some customers and

just talking to them, you'll be shocked at
how much that means. Right. Put yourself in the flip side,
like Alex was saying, as a consumer, I like proactive. Can you imagine
a company calling you and genuinely wanting to know, how can we do
a better job, how can we continue to earn your business every month
or insert frequency here and caring. One, you've probably done that customer

now, their LTV. I don't have the data to support this,
but I can make the assumption that their LTV just shot up.
If they weren't a fanatic before, the likelihood of them moving to fanatic
status is exponentially increased, but also they're giving you their hard

earned dollars, they likely have an opinion on what a superior or better

product or a way we can improve is, and just ask them and
not all answers are gonna be great answers, but if you talk to
enough people, you're gonna start to see trends and you're gonna start to
see feedback that is mirrored on multiple conversations, and that's when

we start putting together the pieces of the puzzle, you're gonna see these
things that are similar and that's how you improve, right. It sounds crazy,

just listen to your customers, but the reality is, so many brands don't.
So many brands get in this really bad habit, I don't think it's
ever really even malicious, I think it's... You're in the weeds of the
day to day of the business, and you've got your blinders on,
right, and you start thinking that you know what your customers want and

need better than they do, and that is 100%
of the time incorrect... There's probably times we're driving and you're

in the zone, and you are probably possibly close to what they want

and knowing, but it's gonna be impossible to have blinders on,
be in the business and have an exact pulse of what your consumers

want. Biggest reason is consumer behavior is constantly changing.

It's never constant, it's always moving a little bit.
Yeah, it was a long answer. Listen to your customers is the short
answer. That's fantastic advice. Yeah, and it feels very authentic. Like
you gotta give a nod to BattlBox, because if I think of other
brands, if they were to call me up, it would feel very
odd and out of the blue, but you guys involve your customer along
the whole spectrum, they're part of procurement. To me, it seems like they
feel as invested in BattlBox as you are, and so if you were
to come up, they'd be like, heck, yeah, let me show you...
Share my feedback. Yeah, it's a good point. So
some brands, it might come across a little ingenuine, but it's just because
it's what we were started on, you look at
some interesting part, so Brandon Currin, the face of BattlBox for the first

12 months plus, he was a paying customer of ours
with zero, literally, we didn't find him, he found one of our Facebook

ads or Instagram ads and signed up and was a paying customer,
he was the face of our brand. Luke
runs our CX department. Luke was a paying customer.
So we have in the Facebook group, before that, it was a Reddit
style bulletin board, we have a group of moderators,
and what we quickly found out is a lot of times our customers
were jumping in when a question was asked from a prospect or a
customer, we were finding these super, super awesome customers that were
beating us to the punch on replying and what we quickly realize is, hey,
this is a great ally resource at some point,
let's keep them engaged, so stop charging them for the box,
even the box are free, and in turn, they help moderate these groups
for us. Right, they know the product just as well as we do,
and it's impressive. And there's passion there. I'm curious, John, obviously,

a lot of brands outside of BattlBox, I think a lot of brands
will react to the negative feedback, and in today's world, you're more likely
to... There's all kinds of studies out there that say, you're more likely
to post a negative review than a positive one, so how do you
approach that with BattlBox of maybe you're getting a negative review, maybe
you're not, but you're leading a different brand, and
the squeaky wheel gets the grease is the saying, but how do you
also focus on that customer that's happy. And you go to them and
say, what are we doing right? Yeah, so
unfortunately, the squeaky wheel does get it sometimes. They don't get all
of it, right, so our resources are allocated appropriately where
unfortunately, if you're super loud and whether you're right or wrong,
everybody... One of the great things about the world is everybody has some
sort of platform to communicate typically at social media, because it's
normally not the happy customers that go out of their way.
That's right. And we do have to... And we do...
It's a priority. We actually, I send a screenshot following up on
one earlier today, just... I was pure curiosity on that, how it was
resolved. So we do have to engage and we do engage,
we don't act like it doesn't exist. We go as fast as we
can, full on, let's engage with this customer.
Taking it to the other stuff, so we do an internal...

It's an internal survey, rate us 1 to 10, they're getting this after
their first box with us, and how likely are you to refer us
to somebody else, and that's the real litmus test, right. And
following, we're not reinventing the wheel here, so nine in 10 is considered
a promoter or a fan or fanatic, depending on how you're looking at
this, 6 to 7, that's considered neutral, and then anything below that,

1 through 5 is a detractor or a negative or

a missed opportunity, we dropped the ball somewhere there, right, if they

gave us between a 1 and a 5 out of 10,
something went wrong, we didn't set proper expectations, it wasn't a good
experience, bad shipping, stuff could be outside of our control, doesn't
matter, it's still our fault. So we do that internal survey,
and if they give us a 5 or less, it automatically kicks a

ticket over to our CS team, they then investigate, try to figure out
how do we turn this customer around. Sometimes
reach out makes sense and we can resolve it. Sometimes it's already a
lost cause and we're gonna follow up anyway and just
hope that it pans out. Nine to 10 is promoter. These people,

we crushed it, we let them know while the fire's hot in there, they're
a fanatic, all the places they can share their story and

tell others about BattlBox. In addition to that, we're gonna tell them about

our referral program and our BattlBox loyalty program.

We have a brand ambassador program, which is pretty cool that

runs parallel, it's similar to like our affiliate in our influencer programs,
but it's more for the paying customer, the customer that

doesn't have 10,000, 50,000 or 100,000 or a million followers, it's the

average person. You might have 200 or you might have a thousand,
but it gives them the ammunition and assets they need where they can

share it on their own social profiles, so we're really just making sure
that when someone is a big fan, that we give them all the
tools necessary, so that they're comfortable sharing with their community

why they like BattlBox. That's great. Alright, well, wrapping up here with
John Roman. John, let's get into the speed round, I gotta know what
other subscription boxes do you subscribe to? None. None. Okay, I wasn't

expecting that. Are you reading anything good right now?

So right now, the content I'm ingesting is

very heavy on community content, Michelle, you had spoken to how

our order of businesses and revenue and content and community is your non

standard? I think it is the non standard, and I think the other
way is probably easier to replicate, and I'm interested in how do we
replicate this to grow both a mile wide and a mile deep. So

right now, what I'm... I'm listening to an insane amount of podcasts and

ingesting a large amount of YouTube content. On both, am oftentimes going

at like 1.5X speed, but it's not what you would necessarily think it's...

Right now, like a lot of Mr. Beast content, a
lot of... They're accomplishing a very similar thing on a much smaller scale,

the Nelk Boys and the Full Send Podcast, both of them and Mr.

Beast, I'm ingesting a lot of it right now, just trying to better
understand, because for us to replicate it on that side,

we need to better understand the terrain a little bit more before we
go into it, and that's our goal for 2023 is hire more full
time creators on our team, and I think we need to better understand
that world before we kinda jump into it. Alright, last question here,
John, what's one thing you do to relax and unwind when you're feeling
stressed, when you're done ingesting content? Push ups. Push ups. So, it's

really strange. I do push ups throughout the day, it started off as... As

I've gotten older, I sort of have a back problem about it a
little over a year ago, finally, after a bunch of different failed ideas,
the doctor said increasing your core strength, and
because of a back issue you can't do sit ups. Push ups was
the answer, and I've somehow done daily push ups and it's like anti
stress, working on core, personal goal. It's weird,

the power of doing push ups every day somehow has changed me
fundamentally and exponentially in the last year. I love it. I love it.
Wow, I think you've convinced me, I must start doing push ups. I
love it. And I'm super dependent on people, if it's just me doing

it, I'm not gonna do it. So I've created a text group with
a couple of other friends, and we have to text each other when
they're done. Nice. For the accountability, if it isn't the text group,
it doesn't count, which is like silly and very child like behavior.
But it holds me accountable. To that community again, I love it.
Alright, John, thanks so much for the time today in coming on Supply
Chain Therapy, really appreciate it man. Thanks guys for having me. I really
appreciate you.