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BattlBox Journey $27M Recurring Revenue Subscription Model

BattlBox Journey $27M Recurring Revenue Subscription Model


5 months ago

In this episode we have the pleasure of interviewing John Roman on the show, and John is the CEO of Battle Box and Carnivore Club, both very successful online subscription model businesses.

Transcript from video:

all right this is Patrick Rogers and
today we have the privilege to have John
Roman on the show and John is the CEO of
battlbox and also carnivore Club
welcome to the show John hey thanks for
having me yeah you bet man so John lives
in Atlanta with his wife and dogs and
bunnies and he actually started his
career out as a professional poker
player got tired of taking everyone's
money uh went into it services and
Consulting uh spent a number of years
there from there John actually
co-founded battlbox and initially took
on a very limited role with the company
was supposed to be there you know just a
few hours a week I know we're going to
get into some of the details but but I
quickly turned into him being the CEO in
really being being behind the steering
wheel that was eight years ago and John
and his team had have not looked back
since so again John great to have you on
the show before we get on get into you
know battle box carnivore club and your
journey what's one interesting fact that
not many people know about you
um I do 200 push-ups every day
not non-negotiable
non-negotiable okay at least 200
push-ups every single day okay so when
do you do doing first thing in the
morning do you spread them out
um so it's 11 right now I'm at 150 so I
did a set of 70 and then I super early
at like six and then I did a set of 80
um maybe an hour and a half ago
that's awesome that is the kind of
that I'm talking about like people that
are recognized okay this is an area of
my life that I'm going to focus on and
then turning out those habits on a
regular basis yeah it's interesting what
what started off as
um so about a year and a half ago I had
a protruding disc
uh in my back L4 L5 and went through the
usual uh
specialist stuff and they
gave me a cortisone shot like a pers
that was actually like a procedure with
a camera because it's spine
um that didn't work did PT didn't work
it finally came to the point they're
like we can do a discectomy
um oh what's up then literally just
going in and and fixing the recruiting
part of the disc but they're like you
know you're you're in your 40s now
you're for the next 30 40 50 years
however long to live you will have
additional back surgeries like uh once
you cut it once you cut you're going to
continue to have to cut and um he's like
you could just focus on your core and
continue to do the exercises that you
learn in PT and it'll it'll get better
um it just might take might take six
months yeah and from that can't do
sit-ups right so
push-ups are a great solution for core
and uh I started doing them every day in

starting in July end of June July last
year and
um told some friends about it you're
like I want to do push-ups so we uh we
have a text group and if you don't text
your push-ups I texted myself yeah I
texted my my 80 to go to 150. if you
don't text it didn't it doesn't exist
so it's created this accountability
Network you will where we're all now
lost our mind in doing 200 push-ups a
day very cool man so have you have you
seen a physical Improvement in the chest
and arms because of it yeah yeah 100 100
um when I you know in June July when I
started I was probably able to do 25 to
30 maybe 35 in a set
and now I'm I'm doing 70 80 I've done
100 before and I said
um so the strength right there but more
importantly my my back is like at 99
better no way
and it's awesome it's bigger than that
right it's like it's such a simple task
if even if you're doing
20 push-ups at a time that's all you can
do right yeah you have to find 10 times
throughout the day it's going to take
less than 30 seconds like it's not that
big of a time commitment not at all true
test right like can you actually do this
I don't know
go ahead I was just going to say like
sometimes the hardest part is is taking
something that you want to do and
turning it into actually doing it and a
lot of that has to do with you know just
the The Habit the habit forming the
actual art of forming a habit right
um I was gonna say like for me like I'll
have the intention of doing it but I'll
get so distracted or pulled over here or
pulled over there that I don't do it
there's actually a book you ever read uh
BJ Fogg uh tiny habits no oh man amazing
books so one of the things he talks
about in there is he talks about a
trigger you like you got a new habit
that you want to do you're doing
something else so you got to have some
kind of a trigger so he talks about this
map model motivation ability and prompt
or trigger and even if your motivation's
high and your abilities high but you
don't have the trigger then then you
don't end up doing it so for me it was
kind of funny it's very similar very
funny that you said this
so I started doing it where I can't eat
anything in during the day unless I do
25 push-ups so that was my trigger yeah
so it's kind of similar but that's what
I needed because I just don't think
about it and I'll forget and then then
it's like seven o'clock oh it's time to
go out to dinner or time to do this with
the family I don't ever freaking get it
done so but dude I commend you man
that's freaking awesome 200 a day that's
balls that's baller I wanna I wanna now
I'm I'm struggling I want to up the
number and why not yeah but I'm trying
to I'm having issues getting uh
now that we have a team all doing this
trying to get everybody else up what
what if you just do it you just do it
and I think yeah I think at that point
you don't want to be left out so maybe
you'll start doing too dude we're men
right we're like oh John's doing it
well I'm not gonna be a great I'm
not gonna be a piece of crap I'm gonna
do them too yeah there you go all right
cool man so um speaking about man up
stuff tell us about battlbox man so
battlbox outdoor gear Adventure Gear
survival gear delivered monthly it's
it's uh not a novel idea but it didn't
exist and um you know through the years
we've amassed a pretty pretty cool
subscriber base
um slightly different from your
traditional brand where we we really
focus on building community and putting
out lots of content mainly video content
um which all of that is is you know it's
non-direct non-aggressive sales right
um it's just you know getting the brand
out there and getting people engaged and
they start to feel like they're a part
of it because they've become a part of
it and then they end up wanting the
subscription as well
how did uh you know I know you
co-founded it how did this concept even
come about
sure so uh my ex-business partner um
Daniel he had uh his fiancee at the time
was getting a Birchbox so it's like a
monthly makeup makeup oh the chick
version of it okay yeah and um she'd get
it every month and he'd watch her open
it and you can see this like genuine
excitement level of oh it's like
Christmas every month exactly and uh
that's how I was born he was like what
he's a Outdoorsman and he was like I
want I want to feel that so he went
online and
couldn't find it I couldn't find it and
it it turned out that he was wasn't
alone in wanting wanting a box like this
yeah yeah very cool so so it could be
like um like a typical month or like one
month what would what would be
in the box like an example of the
survival gear stuff yeah so um so we
have four different tiers we have the
basic the advanced okay and the Pro Plus
um basic is is 35 plus sales tax and
shipping yeah
um the advance 65 plus sales tax and
shipping the pro is 119 plus taxes and
shipping and then uh the Pro Plus which
is our actually our most popular box
yeah 40 45 of our customers are in it
it's uh in the Pro Plus one it's uh it's
169.99 Plus
taxes and shipping ends up being about
200 yeah okay and um so as far as items
so the cool thing is they stack on top
of each other yeah so if you if you're a
Pro customer for example you're getting
everything in the basic everything in
the advance and then the pro item and
okay you know if you're a pro plus
you're getting the entire Gambit okay so
a basic box is
you know it's we're selling it for 35
it's typically going to have somewhere
in a 65 70 75 dollar maybe greater value
if you were to buy it on your own really
well because of this massive quantity
we're purchasing yeah get the price down
and and our motto is we share that that
value and savings to the consumer
so basic box could be somewhere in the
three to five items
um typically three items four items like
fire starters could be a a cool wallet
um could be a lower a knife it literally
is anything that you might go out and
and have the Denture with right yeah
um and and typically the the higher the
higher boxes the tiers because there's
more value there we can add it's
typically lesser items it might be
Advanced typically as one to two
additional items but they're a higher
priced higher quality higher priced
um and then the same with the pro same
with the Pro Plus so when you start
getting in the pro and pro plus
um you know the advance might be a
cooking set to go camping or or go out
um in the outdoors with it Advanced and
pro items might be a um a takedown bow
like a bow and arrow that you would put
together oh wow um could be additional
knives could be water filtration kits
um and then moving to the Pro Plus the
Pro Plus is is it's a high-end knife
it's it's yeah pretty much the night for
the month club yeah it uh it's just a
high-end typical the retail value of it
is going to be somewhere in the 80 to
120 dollar range
so it's a good knife yeah super high
quality knives we're you know partnering
with the leaders in in that space for
that's really cool that you guys uh you
you know you're taking advantage of uh
you know you you get to buy a volume
discount and then you're passing that on
that savings on that's that's really
awesome uh and you're still able to to
be very profitable obviously right
um you know just in in preparation just
talking you know from from marketing and
sales and positioning standpoint
uh first of all congrats on 45 of your
consumers being at the pro plus that's
that's phenomenal yeah when we launched
we that was not our Theory our theory
was that the basic box which is yeah it
was going to be the invert yeah yeah
typically right yeah
um uh did you guys along the way do you
think that that are there reasons that
that's been happening for you guys
yeah so there's there's a couple couple
reasons so so off the Jump just from
from inception it was the Pro Plus was
about 35
of of our of our base okay initially um
but you know over time it's moved up to
so we do a lot of things to
um to kind of show the value of that
higher tier one you know the 50 boxes we
send out a month to influencers
YouTubers people that are putting on
content that are not part of us we only
send the Pro Plus
we don't send anybody the basic we don't
send it so that's what they're talking
about the influencers are showing the
entire thing exactly and then a lot of
it is if you're a basic advancer Pro
customer let's say you're a basic
customer you get your box we put a um
you know five six seven page booklet in
the Box telling about all the items use
case what they are why we chose them but
okay there's there's one booklet so if
you get the basic you're gonna open up
the book you're going to see your basic
items sure if you go to the next page
you're going to see everything you
missed out on oh so they start seeing
yeah that's smart that's ingenious man
but you start seeing that wow like I
really should upgrade because
so much more value and it's it's one of
those things there's so much value there
and you know it's tough to appease
everybody right not everybody's gonna
like every single item in the Box sure
but the cool thing is there's so much
value there you might like these four
items and not like this fifth
but those four items you like the value
is still there for what you pay and you
can you can gift the fifth item to
someone for a birthday or just a friend
and and it's like that added added value
of we see a lot of our customers that'll
gift items
yeah and so are your margins actually
better at the higher tier than the lower
um it's slightly better yeah slightly
better dude that's awesome that's
awesome so so typically because these um
these knives are
um are high value super high quality
knives the quantity that we need are
never sitting on a shelf anywhere so
they're always manufacturer yeah they're
having a they're having to do a a custom
run or an additional run
for us so at that point
we're just very honest right so we are a
marketing engine
um we're a great place for a brand to
Showcase their product because you know
you send us the product we're going to
put in all these boxes
um you're gonna have user generated
content right you're gonna have hundreds
of people that want to share their box
anyway social but we're also going to
send this out to 50 influencers
YouTubers reviewers that's so smart be
showing your item and then you know
combined on our channels we have 1.8
million followers so we're gonna
showcase it as well and the the reach
you're getting the audience you're
tapping into
um it typically makes sense for them to
sell us the product at their cost plus
shipping just because of the fact that
the marketing return and the eyeballs
and the brand growth and and in site
traffic you're going to see is is of
such value
so you guys worked out a deal with them
to get these products at their cost
typically at their cost plus plus
um we don't want them to you know come
out of pocket we don't think that's
necessarily a fair proposition sometimes
you know sometimes the knife companies
they don't see the value they they won't
sell it to us at all at a price point
that works sometimes it's somewhere in
the middle of
um you know maybe they're making 20 but
they can't make our model doesn't
support them
to sell it to us in traditional
wholesale rates
um so we've got to find brands that see
the value and understand 1.8 million
eyeballs from our audience another four
million eyeballs from
um from those influencers we're sending
to right like there's value there and I
mean you have to understand the value to
to want to be in the battle box and we
have and we also have um you know if
you're a giant
um you know nine figure or billion
dollar brand yeah the uplift we give you
might not be uh it's probably not going
to move the needle right
um but if you're if you're a small small
up and coming yeah yeah like we have so
many cool case studies that we'll share
with vendors that we're trying to
onboard just what we did for people's
business it's like it's it gives you a
warm and fuzzy feeling like it's so cool
yeah yeah no I think that that's that's
ingenious that you guys have have found
that there's a value to them on the
other side of giving it to you for a lot
less of a cost the the eyeballs that
they're getting from your own
influencers excuse me from the
influencers and from your own audience
and so they're then they're getting
sales on the back end that support this
it's almost like this is almost like a
sales and marketing uh expense for them
in one in one sense and you know there's
some companies there's some brands that
we we through the years have worked with
a couple of times yeah and that as the
relationships matured it's like hey we
we have a new product coming out we want
to launch the product with with you guys
right right because it's just getting it
out there yeah totally and it's it's a
way more cost effective solution than
you know spending millions of dollars on
Advertising when people were having
attribution issues sure
so take us through this journey what
what are the the major you know the
major Milestones or or you know how did
you get to where you are now from eight
years ago man sure
um so so off the Jump we saw
um we saw success right away
um you did I think so we launched in
February 2015 and in year one we did uh
around four and a half million in
um wow and we just weren't
um none of us had a background in
e-commerce so we were making mistakes we
just didn't even know we're mistakes
um the main one being we were only
advertising on one platform Facebook
yeah why not
um it worked right it was working and um
it was working until it wasn't that
first exactly yeah Labor Day weekend
going into the weekend and like six or
seven o'clock our time Eastern Standard
all of our ads are at account everything
got shut down no way so we went through
the only incoming lead source and yeah
so we went from
know from all these sales but I have our
best weekend ever no sales
it took us
five six days to get back or five days
to get back up but it was at that point
after Labor Day yeah it was after Labor
Day and it was one of those things where
it was the aha moment huh maybe we
should be a little bit Diversified on on
our lead Source right yeah so shame that
it took that to happen but you know year
um year two we saw additional growth we
then got into other lead sources
um continued growth continued growth and
then we um
2020 was a real pivotal year for us yeah
the obvious pandemic covid
um was really kind to e-commerce
businesses right everybody's stuck in
the house everybody is doing really well
shopping online so that and pool
manufacturers did really good
um so so that started our 2020 in March
and then in July we had our Netflix
original series
um so there's no survival premiered oh
cool and that was uh another
giant influx of of traffic
um it was at that point that
we then started to see additional
exponential growth
um covid and the show and then towards
the end of 2020 we said okay we want to
we were we weren't all that there were
three of us that were the principals and
we weren't really all eye to eye on what
the future was two of us wanted to keep
going one of us wanted to retire
um so we figured out how do we
how do we find uh something that works
for everybody and we ended up deciding
to sell so we we
found some suitors and found one in
October of 2021 we were Acquired and two
of us stayed on and the one that wanted
to leave Daniel was able to retire so
every Everybody won it was uh the
perfect outcome for everybody
yeah awesome awesome congrats on that so
thank you um yeah so uh so where do you
guys at now like how many you know
whatever you can share to to let the
audience know early just know like how
you know what's your guys's size like
where are you at now so so we're in the
mid mid to high 20s uh 27 28 in total uh

million in total revenue currently dude
that's awesome congratulations John
that's fantastic man and uh and and
still got a nice trajectory
yeah it's uh you know there's
there's been nuances with in a post iOS
world of attribution and and advertising
and costs have gone up so so we're
navigating those Waters
um I think this year will will probably
be pretty flat which
um doesn't sound great but when you look
at some other brands and how much
they've they've lost because you you
look at the e-commerce Spike that was
you know the end of 2020 2021 right and
then there was you know people were
saying oh well now it's it's going back
um when you look at like previous years
it's it's a little blip but
we then compare like 2019
and then we look at 2022
2023 yeah and and we look at that
anomaly right our trend line is still
where it should be it's just it's just a
little bit of a it's like a stock it
kind of dipped down it's coming back up
yeah yeah right so yeah okay yeah so
it's it will probably be pretty close to
Flat this year but we're we're really
investing this year into the the
infrastructure what we need to then be a
little bit less dependent on advertising
and and be able to really start the
growth how it needs to go what kind of
thing what does that mean invest in
infrastructure what kind of things so
um content so you know we we've always
focused on content it's it's why we got
our Netflix show we we put out a a great
um but we're doubling down on it so
we've already um last month we hired our
uh second full-time video editor and
we're going to take an interesting model
where so we have uh Brandon Curran which
if you've seen the battle Box video
bearded guy he is the face of battlbox
that Brandon was actually a paying
customer in the beginning oh was he man
he's got the perfect beard dude he's got
the everything he's just yeah man
um and he does so what we saw early on
um we had a pre-purchase survey and
people you know tell us where you found
about us found out about us and people
were putting other and putting his
information uh that's cool and uh it
went from hey
he's a paying customer that hey we're
gonna send you a box for free just keep
doing what you're doing hey please don't
um we're gonna write you a check every
month yeah you're now part of the team
yeah to hey do you want to move your
wife and three kids down to Georgia
let's do this thing man and do this yeah
um that's so cool so we're gonna we're
gonna continue to focus so we have you
know Brandon who who is a full-time
Creator we want to hire additional
full-time creators we we really want to
lean in on content and and build Brands
um the audiences that that the creators
can can grow oh wow yeah so so so almost
like hey this thing fell in our lap and
kind of accidentally but it's working
working like a charm so how do we now
instead of accidentally do it
intentionally you know look for others
100 customers
a hundred percent so you're seeing this
this trend and it's not it's not new
it's been going on for for a decade now
but it's continuing in the same in the
same velocity and Direction where the
consumer behavior
um of purchases it obviously matters
you've got to Overlay a need want scale
and see where your product or brand
Falls in that sure but the closer you
get over to the want
toilet paper on the far left of need but
like battle box and and Brands like us
where it's it's not necessarily a
necessity right correct
um the closer you are on the to the want
side right the more it matters brands or
consumers want to identify with the
brand they want to feel some kind of
connection and um yeah you're really
seeing what I described super tree look
at these creators that were full-time
creators right so the one that comes to
mind that everybody knows so it's it's
the great one to give is the example is
Mr Beast of course yeah this guy has a
massive following he's built purely from
a content and Community side point as a
Creator and then he decides hey I'm
gonna launch a fast food chain hey I'm
gonna launch a chocolate absolutely and
they're instantly successful because he
already did the hard work of of building
this audience and having a connection
she already has the eyeballs that's
right he already has the eyeballs and
because he's amassed so many the the
typical hurdles that a traditional
business would run into like the you
know that's probably no the ridiculous
sales funnel of how are we going to get
our product in Walmart it was in Walmart
weekly he's already there yeah yeah he's
already there it takes people years uh
in finding the right buyer in the right
test and he just goes Nationwide
um so so it's funny we were a business
first with content and we've seen what
these creators have done and we actually
reverse engineered it yeah and
accomplished it but now we really want
to focus on content
yeah it's it's so smart and and so so
coming out with with even new maybe
Brands right getting that in front of
people as well and maybe even
Acquisitions or maybe others that you
could you know look for something that's
uh you're probably already going down
this road or thinking about it but
something that's maybe they don't have
the eyeballs you do and then you acquire
and bring it in and boom exactly so we
um so that was the the story of
carnivore Club was it was a monthly you
know charcuterie subscription doesn't
um you think battle box carnivore Club
sure there's probably you know some
battle box customers might like salami
and killed Meats yeah but it was also
the the fact that we had this team in
place we we have the marketing team we
have the operations team we own our own
fulfillment sort of houses so we
literally can take a brand like
carnivore Club fold it into the mix and
there's instant synergies
um which and it also obviously then
creates additional revenue and profit
yeah man very cool
wow I love the journey man so what's
um so so you guys are working on the uh
additional Brands additional content
audience expansion other ways
um yeah that's exciting man so um the
question I always ask all of my guests
on the show if there was uh if you're
gonna hire a CEO to take the reins for
your company what's the one book that
you would require he or she read before
taking over for you
so we had chatted about this book when
we spoke last time the signal and the
noise yeah
um so it's a lot of times it's probably
not a traditional like
sea level or founder book right but but
what it what I love about it is I mean
the title A lot of people are going to
hear the title and understand yeah like
what it's about which is accurate I
think that's
probably the most important thing I
would be looking for would be someone
that's able to to tell the difference
right differentiate what is just noise
yeah and what actually matters and it's
it's so true in the case of the
battlebox brand yeah because we have
uh passionate customers
um they let us know when they when they
didn't like the box and
um a lot of times it's noise right it's
it's two people and don't get me wrong I
want everybody to be happy but they're
these two really loud people that are
going on all social media channels super
but Patrick we sent out twenty thousand
boxes last month like right everybody
else right loved it everybody loved it
yeah and that's probably uh uh not the
greatest example but it but it's an
example right just being able to tell
what's what's actually important and
what this signal is when you're when
you're looking at data when you're
you're looking at anything
and you have to be right I mean you're
you're the CEO of the company you have
to fly high you you have to 80 20 you
know what what is something that I'm
going to put my attention towards what's
real what's not real just out of curious
that since you curiosity since you
brought it up is there a certain
percentage of you know negative feedback
you say okay if we get above like a
certain percent maybe five percent of
the people or complained about this box
that's when we start you know looking at
hey what do we need to do different type
yeah typically it's it's you might be
surprised it's it's one percent one
percent okay one percent get this that's
a lot of people yeah but it gets us to
look at
maybe it's not something we need to
address but right we're 100 gonna have a
conversation about about it was was it a
product defect was it a you know did it
get damage in shipping right right was
it just did we make a bad product
um it makes us at least dig into it yeah
totally if it's if it's one percent or
above it's on all of leadership's radar
yeah someone someone's sounded the alarm
and said potential issues here yeah
totally yeah and you got you just got an
award recently right
uh yeah so
um to cheat and see what it's called
impact award yeah sub Summit
so so sub Summit it's uh
um it's a conference for subscriptions
right so everything from subscription
boxes like a battle box to
um you know media like a periodicals
like Washington Post whatever it is yeah
streaming service a lot of contenders
um and it the impact award is the first
year they they did it and um it was just
highlighting and it was kind of cool
because I had no idea
um oh you didn't know when you were
there no I knew I knew a couple weeks
prior oh did you okay all right but like
I didn't it wasn't an award prior so
like I didn't think oh I wasn't like hey
I hope I win the impact yeah yeah yeah
yeah it didn't exist um right it's just
for for helping the community
um being someone that
um you know doesn't mind sharing yeah
what's under under the robe or behind
the curtain
I don't think others have to lose in
order for a battle box for me to win I
love it I think everybody
I mean that's your business model you
created it such that it's a win for the
supplier the vendors it's a win for the
client because they're getting something
for I mean I don't know 30 Less in
retail 40 50 whatever that is and you
guys are a profitable company that's
that's that's how the most successful
businesses are are created man yeah
um yeah but I feel I I
that's like when I think about
the things that give me enjoyment and
um outside of of battlbox which which
does it's it's giving any kind of
insights that you know maybe I can share
five insights and one of them resonates
with someone being being able to share
and and watch someone else have a
success from it that's like that's what
gives me the the Good Feeling to to keep
pushing and keep going cool man awesome
well great to have you on the show John
I want to take a few seconds here and
just summarize some of my key takeaways
one is uh direct to Consumers is is
influencers really utilizing influencers
it sounds like that's been a real key
strategic move for you guys you're
sending out 50 boxes every month to your
influencers I think that's phenomenal
um and you had talked about working with
the vendors getting them uh really the
value proposition to them to sell their
products to you at at their cost plus
shipping and and really they're getting
the eyeball on the back end and they're
getting sales that's that's phenomenally
ingenious in that and you're passing on
that savings to to the battle box
customers and and subscribers the other
thing I thought was a great uh you know
sometimes we learn since the hard way
and sometimes it takes the hard way for
us to really you know make it click in
life and that's diversify your marketing
lead sources and uh don't don't rely on
one uh platform even though it's going
phenomenally well because you never know
one algorithm one change one to anything
and then you're knocked out right right
and it is kind of the same like when
you're looking at a company you never
have more than you know 20 of your
Revenue come from one client which is
obviously not your anywhere near your
model and then the last one I thought
was really great is is your brand
uh especially that'll help you through
tough times like as we know we got 2025
they're saying it's going to be you know
or 2024 is going to be a recessionary
year so you know having that brand
connection the the difference between
something that people need versus want
and if you don't have that in order to
just get through times like that you got
to have that connection with them uh if
you're if you're leaning more towards
the want side of things so awesome stuff
man if there was one takeaway that you'd
really want the audience to absorb what
would that be Joan
um so so so building building the
community and trying to get the product
um I think it's it's so simple and
everybody knows this yet I think a lot
of people don't do it is talk to your
customers ask them for feedback right
ask them how you can can improve
um I'm I'm really against like
for lack of better words like Ivory
Tower Management uh that kind of view
yeah control right yeah like I've I I
post we have a members only group you
have to be an active subscriber to be in
um not everybody's in there we have
maybe 8 000
um members in there but I'll post in
there I'll interact with customers
um if someone someone made a comment
yesterday about they didn't win a
giveaway and they thought they should
have won
very unusual for for the the CEO to jump
in and interact with them of a company
right yeah I jumped in and I would do
that yeah I said hey I was like what
what platform was this and he said
Twitter and he showed a screenshot and I
said you know we'll look into this and I
tagged someone else in the group that
can take the ball and run with it but
that interaction
um it doesn't take a lot of time right
and you can use those interactions to to
ask for for ways to improve and um
customers are going to tell you what
they want right yeah absolutely
um that's that's it seems more so than
ever before that consumers