What happens when you sell your company, then buy it back to take it private again? David Schomer sits down with John Roman, CEO of BattlBrands, to unpack the bold moves behind BattlBox’s rise from a Facebook-fueled launch to an eight-figure portfolio, a high-profile acquisition, and a decisive buyback that reset the roadmap on his terms.
John walks us through the early grind, the moment he left a comfortable corporate path, and the hard choices that unlocked growth: firing a non-performing partner, recruiting a top creator in-house, and making content the engine rather than a side project. We dig into why human storytelling beats hard selling, how raw behind-the-scenes moments build trust, and why community is the most defensible moat in e-commerce. If you’re aiming to reduce churn and raise LTV, you’ll hear how reframing “subscription” as “membership” unlocks recurring revenue with real perks, belonging, and out-of-box value that customers actually feel.
Then we go deep on live shopping. After years of hype, John explains why the U.S. market is finally ready, how Whatnot differs from doomscrolling on TikTok, and what it takes to scale from a 10-hour test to 45 hours of weekly programming with multiple hosts and show runners. The playbook is fast, vertical, and emotionally driven—short attention spans, quick decisions, and high intent. We connect the dots between creator-led content, membership benefits, retention strategy, and live shopping as an always-on touchpoint that turns fans into customers and customers into advocates.
If you’re building an e-commerce brand, this conversation delivers practical ideas on content strategy, community building, membership design, retention levers, and the live commerce stack. Subscribe, share this with a founder who needs a push, and leave a review with the one tactic you’ll test next.
Transcript from audio:
0:01 Hey Amazon sellers, I want to share something that can completely change the way you run your business. For the last decade, I've built a world-class Amazon team that's helped me sell over $50 million on the platform and scale multiple 7figure brands. Now, that same team and process is available to help you build, grow, and scale your Amazon business. This is not a course. It's not a DIY program. It's done for you Amazon growth handled by proven experts. We handle everything from listing optimization and SEO to PPC, inventory, catalog management, promotions, review strategy, compliance, and new product launches, so you can focus on running your business while we handle the rest.
0:51 If you're ready to turn your Amazon channel into a profit machine, visit the link in the show notes, https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon, and book a time to see if this is a good fit for you. Welcome everyone to the Firingtheman podcast, a show for anyone who wants to be their own boss. If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of more, then join us. This show will help you build a business and grow your passive income streams in just a few short hours per day. And now, your hosts, serial entrepreneurs, David Schmer and Ken Wilson.
1:32 Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man podcast. Today's guest is a powerhouse in the e-commerce and subscription world. John Roman, the CEO of BattlBrands, the parent company behind BattlBox, the massive outdoor gear subscription box that became a household name after landing its own Netflix series Southern Survival. John's story is wild. He helped scale the Battlbox Group, which also included Carnivore Club and Wanlow, $30 million subscription portfolio before the company was acquired in 2021. But here's where it gets even better.
2:10 Less than two years later, John led a group to buy Battlbox back and take it private again. Talk about betting on yourself. He's a five-time founder with five exits and four acquisitions under his belt. a rare combo of operator and dealmaker. He's an absolute expert in content marketing, community building, retention, and short form video. Having cracked the code on Tik Tok, Instagram reels, and YouTube shorts long before most brands caught on. If you want to learn about how to turn fans into customers, reduce churn, boost AOV, and build an 8 figureure brand through storytelling and strategy, you're going to love this conversation. Please welcome to the show, John Roman. John, welcome. David, thanks for having me, man. I uh
3:01 can I can I have that that intro? That might be like the kindest words I've ever heard is amazing. Well, I all publicly available and and and uh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I can send that over to you, but uh great to be here. Yeah. So, so for people that have not heard of you, can you share a little bit of your background and path in the e-commerce world?
3:25 Sure. So, so, uh, ecom is my my third career, which, uh, career one to the joy of my parents after graduating university. I decided I was going to play poker professionally. So, I did that for 4 and a half years. Um, TLDDR was uh it was good, was not great. I was a B+ player. Um, not an A player. Worked really hard to become an A. Couldn't couldn't do it. Couldn't make it. Um, and you look at people that uh were still in that profession that were um my age now. Um, and it's it's probably not the spot I wanted to be in. It looked like they picked up a couple other vices. Um, life had been maybe a
4:08 little bit hard. So made the tough decision not not to continue that. Um had started dating my now wife at at that time. So made the decision I'm going to jump into uh the corporate corporate world work work for the man. Um and uh I grabbed an entry- level sales job um that uh typically was filled by uh recent college grads. took that at 26.
4:39 Um, and obviously had a a little bit of a chip on my shoulder because I'm four years older than 5 years older than everyone else. And um, outwork them both smarter, harder, had a lot of success in sales. Quickly moved up the uh, the corporate ladder. Um, and by the end of of that journey, I was I was building and training and launching sales teams.
5:05 um specifically B2B in the in the enterprise world. Um somehow along that path I started investing in companies. Um not in a traditional like uh private equity or VC world, but like I was building a network of people. Um and when things crossed my desk randomly um that could use investment, I I did that.
5:30 And and Battlbox was was one of those um companies. So I invested in it. a week and a half after launch and uh what I had agre agreed to be a part of was was a board seat and you know 5 hours a month of some highlevel advice from just someone with myself having you know relatively strong business acumen and it quickly quickly quickly changed um where you know I was putting in 50 hours 60 hours for my day job a corporate job and then 50 60 hours with
6:11 Battlbox 2 and it became um just not sustainable. You can't you can't continue. I'm not I'm not built to continually put in 120 hour work weeks. And uh it just got to a a point where I had to choose one or the other. uh the startup that I was working for um had revenue uh slightly north of 10 million and in April of 2016, so 14 months after we launched Battlbox, the run rate was
6:43 looking like it was going to do a little bit more than the company I was working for. And it was that moment I was like, "Okay, well then this I'm I'm a pretty riskadverse guy." And I was like, "Okay, that's that's it. Let's let's let's do this." And uh we had just just bought our first home three months prior. So my wife was super thrilled um to hear that I wanted to uh do this after after us
7:10 getting this mortgage and and living in the home we live in now. But uh she was supportive and we did it and the rest the rest is history and you touched on a lot of it. That's outstanding. That's outstanding. Given the name of the show, Firing the Man, I do want to dig into that day, that aha moment where you said, "I'm doing it. I'm going in. I'm putting in my notice and I'm going with Battlbox full-time." Do you remember, you know,
7:34 what that day was like, what you were thinking? Yeah. So, um, you know, the the the the order of of things might have might have been a little bit off if my wife happens to listen to this. um she did give me the the the blessing and hey let's do that I support you but um the the the day itself was I absolutely remember so
8:02 I had been brought in only 4 months prior to this new company um so the reality of me leaving a place in 4 months is not in my DNA I'm you know I've had done so much hiring and unfortunately firing in these building these sales roles like I had had ingrained just because I had said it so much like you got to put two years in somewhere to really give it a a fair shot. Um and we were sitting here 4
8:31 months in. I had come to the conclusion that the company that um great company and and I the CEO now was the CMO then she came on at the same time I did and I I had lunch with her last week and she's she's she has grown the company to where it um maybe 5xed it since uh the point you know back in 20 2016 when when I was there. But the software that we were selling was not where it needed to be. And I was meeting with the CEO and uh a board
9:06 member. The board member was the one that had brought me in in into the opportunity. And I I just remember sitting there, hey, this is uh you know, the software is not where it needs to be. We need to There's a couple ways we get there. one, we we make an acquisition, strategic acquisition, tuck it in um and and and
9:27 get the technology faster, but we're talking with due dil off offer due diligence integration like it's going to be a year, year and a half um and then the software might be ready or we can build it ourselves. We're looking at two two and a half years and um they were like, "Oh, okay. Well, which one do you
9:46 want to do?" Well, you brought me on to build a sales team. Um, and there's also a part of me that was like there's some attractiveness um of of doing one of those. Okay. Trying to find a company to buy technology-wise or leading a team of uh and building something which I know
10:05 nothing about. Um, so both were super outside my wheelhouse. And there was a part of me that was like, okay, maybe maybe maybe I'm gonna learn a new a new skill set. But then I have in the back of my head this looming and and they knew about Battlbox already. Um I I was so excited about it I couldn't shut up. So they definitely knew that it exists and they knew that it was growing
10:29 rapidly and I'm sure it was a a general um fear that I might I might dip out because of it. But that was just the moment where um I was just very honest with him and I said, "Look, like um it's not what I signed up for." And I think it both options are exciting. But that's the thing about about the corporate world, right? There's a lot of
10:51 ass, a lot of taking um and by design, there's not a lot of giving um from that from from the co corporate overlords, right? Um these these businesses are typically built with uh shareholder value being the the number one pillar and that normally comes at the expense of the the people working working for
11:14 the man. So lots of lots of other stories of of my corporate life but that was just the moment I could have um I had equity uh phantom equity with this opportunity. Right? if there was ever this exit event, I was surely going to get a payday. But I had actual meaningful real no rules equity on the battlbox side and and and they
11:39 they're not the same. And uh I wanted I wanted to to to do it. So that was it. Outstanding. Outstanding. I I love that firing the man story. And it seems like you were talking about the 100 hour weeks. It seems like when people you you almost have to go through that. You you have to as you're building up whatever it is on the side as you're working your
12:04 corporate job, there is something about that that is almost necessary for the process. I I was a 4 a.m. to 7 a.m. guy and then I'd go to my day job at CPA firm. And it was something that as I look back on it, I'm I'm glad I went through it. at the time it was exhausting but uh absolutely part of it.
12:26 So let's uh let's turn the corner and talk about Battlbox. So let's talk about the the climb up growing that company. What were some of the levers that you pulled that really led to uh successful growth? Sure. So, in the in the beginning, um can tell you that that uh we're Facebook ad experts, but uh that would be a lie.
12:52 Um we didn't really know what we were doing on the Facebook side. We obviously had enough um critical thinking to know how to start an ad and create an ad and add a creative and put some copy with a call to action and um have a website. But it was uh not not rocket science back then. We we launched exclusively on
13:13 Facebook was all of our lead sources lead source was Facebook or if you went to Google Analytics and looked at traffic and source it was all all Facebook because that's where we tested and and started and obviously you know uh it's probably not a not a best practice for longevity. We we quickly realized that and diversified our lead sources and and traffic. But that's that's all we did. Facebook by itself in that first year got ush four and a half million in revenue and um just just just
13:47 and not even a complex strategy just spinning up ads and they were working and um it wasn't it wasn't until we got into year two that we really started diversifying um when I came on board um full-time in April of 2016 I had two two main immediate objectives to accomplish. One, there was a fourth partner and um they just weren't bringing any value and uh
14:18 they were they were just given this equity, but um they weren't doing anything. So, I was elected um uh to to figure it out, which was uh not a not a fun thing to be chosen for, but I had to figure out how to get this fourth partner out. Um, and the result was writing them a a at the time very large check relatively to to get that equity back. And then um the second thing which
14:46 was enjoyable was uh reaching out to one of our number one creators at the time bringing the most most traffic. Uh this is in year two and that was Brandon Currin. if you've seen a Battlbox video, the bearded gentleman, and uh reaching out to him and and getting him to uh move him, his wife, and his three kids down to Georgia because the the vision was we were going to lead in on content and it was just going to be
15:18 about content. Content was going to be our top of funnel and and building a community through the content. And uh he saw the vision and did it. And um that was that was that was that inflection point. He went from that video he was doing at nighttime on his own once a month to how many videos can you can you
15:39 uh film, edit, and post farm to table yourself. So that that was the game changer. That's outstanding. That's outstanding. That is on the content side of things. That seems to be an area where a lot of brands get it wrong. And I'm curious what as a company is thinking about their own content and and their own promotion, what are some things that
16:04 they should be considering? Um, as as as silly as it is to say, um, when you're when you're doing content, um, I think there's two elements that people get wrong. one, they don't show the human element. Um, in in today's day and age, especially in a uh this was this was true 10 years ago, but it's even more true now. People crave connection
16:31 and in a in a postcoid world where there's so much remote work now and human interaction is not at the same level it was before. Um, connection matters. So I I think not having that human element, not showing whether it's vulnerability um or or what have you. Showing the human element I think is key. The second piece uh on the things that that I think brands get wrong, it's not lack of something, but it's the opposite. It's
17:03 it's it's selling too hard. It's it's trying to make it about selling a product. And as much as people um you know crave connection, people also don't want to be sold to. Nobody nobody wants to be sold to. Whether it's a a unsolicited phone call or or an ad when you're trying to do something else like
17:27 yes, they work or they wouldn't be done, but it the vast majority of people do not enjoy being on the other end of any of that. Absolutely. I I agree with that. And as I think of some of the recent products that I've I've engaged with or brands that I've engaged with and I think about their content, it's it's raw. It's real. It's hey, here's what our warehouse looks like. And here's where we make the stuff. Uh or here's some issues that we're running into today. And and it has
17:59 nothing. There's no sales pitch. There's no coupon code. There's no click the link below. Uh it's just here's here's what we're doing. and and so no I I I think that's really really sound advice and it's interesting you had mentioned postcoid era and there really that is an inflection point and in a lot of different areas of people's life but speaking to e-commerce specifically
18:24 what what are some things you've noticed in the postcoid era you know you had you had brought up the point of of people craving connection or are there any other things any strategies that you think particularly do well in this era. Um, yeah. So, you know, you you talk about during the the the the epidemic itself, 2020, 2021,
18:50 um, couldn't do any wrong in ecom, right? Like everything worked, everything was great. All we do is grow and sell more. Um and then the reality of of not normaly but new normaly came into play and I mean fellow um so we don't technically view ourselves as a as a subscription box cuz at this point we do so much more but if I am going to categorize this as a subscription box um there I have a lot of a lot of uh
19:21 friends that are there peers that run similar not outdoor per se but subscription box brands and they all saw a 30 40 50% drop in in revenues as as we saw you know this new normal. Now no one wants to look at 2020 and the start of 2021 as an anomaly and if you do you know 2022 still higher than 2019. So like everything's still moving in the right direction. you just had this little blip on the radar. But the reality is most businesses in 2020 and
19:59 2021 just thought that that was going to be the new standard. So they made decisions based on that that would not have been sustainable with 2019 or or 2022 numbers. So it's uh you know silver lining is it's still the the business the the space has continued to grow. Um, you just can't really compare it against that. But back to your question of of things that things that matter. I I think it it it honestly depends on what you're selling, right?
20:32 Where it falls in the need want scale. Um, if it's on the want, all I know is is is building content and community around it. Um, that's that's what we've had success with. And I could I could suggest other things, but um unless I've done them and proven them out, I don't think it's a recommendation. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um well, let let's talk a little bit more about subscriptions. So I I know and I am
21:02 included in this there are a lot of people listening who have direct to consumer brands and there is not an element of subscription there. where they're a series of one-time purchases. And as we peek over the fence at the subscription box and and we're looking at our own customer lifetime value and the customer lifetime value on a subscription service, it looks nice and and so what are what are some ways or what are some best practices in putting together a subscription box program that you know
21:41 some of our listeners could could tack on to their existing DTOC brands? Yeah. So I think um it you know to a a DOC brand listener I don't think it necessarily needs to be a subscription box that could be an element of it it could be it um I think you need to look at it in a different lens and that's just a lens of membership right so if you have a assume you have a product that isn't just a thing you would buy one time and be done um you know like uh
22:09 I don't think um you know someone that bad example But, you know, $3,000 computer, like someone's not going to get a a membership or a subscription to that. You might get a membership for like um so now I'm I'm wrong. You might actually get a membership because you you might need service or added benefit, but but that's to me the lens to look at. So, I guess everything could be a membership, but membership, right, to get
22:37 reoccurring revenue. And I think um for us, the way we look at it is we were we're obsessed with bringing value to that customer outside of just the physical product. Um we as silly as it is to say we, you know, on average uh Pro Plus, which is the 170 a month with sales tax and shipping is $200 a month. That is our most popular uh product skew. That's 55% of our base is in that that product. We don't get me wrong, at the end of the day, it a certain part of it is about the items in the box, right? You can't get around that, but we just
23:18 make so much of it not about that. It's about the membership. It's about the community. It's about the added values and benefits that you get outside of it. Our goal is to make to provide that much value outside that that outside value you could argue would pay on its own accord for for the the monthly charge. Um which is which is a lot. So it's uh it's just a different approach of of of giving more giving
23:51 more than than uh you know you're you're necessarily charging providing value and it doesn't have to be in a physical product manner. Absolutely. Absolutely. In regards to you know you you document the content and then you have to decide what platform do I do I put this on or what platforms more likely. What are as we sit here talking in October of 25, where do you see a lot of opportunity? Where is we you were talking earlier about the wild west of Facebook ads where everyone was a pro? I remember those days and I I look back on what where where is that opportunity as you
24:34 sit here today? What what do you think? Um, so every time I I so I have a absolute answer and I I before saying it, I want to preface it a little bit because I was a non-believer in this because the US has talked about it uh for the past 10 years and it's was just never the case and I think we're finally at the the early stages of it actually finally being a reality. ity and that's live shopping. Um live shopping to me um so we launched
25:14 it in in April so relatively uh not that long ago. Uh it's already we're on Whatnot as the platform. We've done some testing on Tik Tok shop. Uh we'll do some testing likely on eBay coming up and then once Amazon rules theirs out, we'll probably look at that too. The the reality is it's uh you know for 10 years someone has been saying live shopping live shopping look at China look at China um the real the China China China
25:45 is different right it's a different consumer it's a different society it's a different consumer behavior different uh consumer purchasing um variables I don't think will ever be China but um even if we become a fraction of what they're doing, then it's it's all of a sudden a very very large trillion dollar in 10 years space. Uh so China will be uh live shopping this year. They'll do over a
26:17 trillion in in revenue. Um we're nowhere near that. I think we're probably maybe 70 billion this year. Maybe maybe close to 100 billion. But all of the the indicators are there that it's it's it's exponentially it exponentially grew from 2024 and all of the things you're seeing you know whatnot for example was 12 employees precoid um they raised at a $5 billion valuation this year and have 600 employees like that's a force and and they're just one right you have eBay trying to figure out Amazon trying to figure it out um Bite Dance or Tik Tok
27:00 or whoever the new owner is going to be trying to figure it out. And I think this is the time that it actually is going to happen. And if if I wouldn't have jumped in in April and we wouldn't have had the success we're having there, I don't think I'd be a believer because I'm I'm numb to it, right? I'm numb to hearing about it for a decade and trying stuff and it not working. But this is this is the opportunity. I think it's too early. I think you could come in to live shopping now. figure it out through through mistakes, learning learning
27:32 through just jumping in there and still be able to grab giant giant land amounts where where you could just dominate and and establish yourself. Okay. And you had mentioned what was the platform again that you're using? So, we're using whatn not wh Okay. All right. When when I think live shopping, I think of old school QVC, somebody st stand standing on a stage
28:03 and I I have a hunch that that is it is probably different in in practice. Uh what what is your live shopping setup look like? And and what's the is it very formal like scripted content? Is it off the cuff? Are you doing it with influencers? What does it look like? Sure. So, so yeah. So, you know, QVC, Home Shopping Network, uh that whole genre of of live selling, it it skipped our generation. Our generation caused it
28:33 to fail, right? Um but you look at our parents' generation, they'd they'd watch it and they'd order the the the lamp that you can touch on. And it's a thing. Um my my wife's uh mother still is watching and ordering stuff. Um but you know our generation didn't find it to be the right way to buy stuff. um especially with the rise of e-commerce and uh this new generation it it's gone full circle but there's a major difference right and the major difference is
29:09 the new generation does not have attention span at all right um the success of of Tik Tok or Instagram reels or YouTube shorts validates that every day all they want to do is doom scroll and and that's what the live shopping is now it's the same format um whatnot is literally the same format as doom scrolling on any of those three
29:30 platforms vertical vertical short forms. The difference is um and you know TikTok shop the algorithm will sneak some shopping stuff in there. The difference is whatnot is a shopping platform. So the the intent is much higher, right? you go on Tik Tok, you're doom scrolling to be entertained and then you see an item and you might buy it, but there's no um brand loyalty there. It's a very transactional um scenario. While whatnot, and you
30:04 know, I don't not saying whatnot is the end all beall. There's I'm sure some other options out there. And the reality is one of the big players will likely figure it out as well. and and if they can't figure it out, they'll buy somebody that did. So, you know, I don't know if whatnot ends up being the winner. There's there's a world where Amazon buys them, right? Um but it's a
30:26 much different experience. It's it's vertical short form. So, you're not talking about a product for a 15-minute section segment. You're talking about a product possibly for only 20 seconds. Um because that's what uh current attention spans are. So, it's it's quick. It's additional products. It's no due diligence or research uh on the product.
30:51 You're not opening up another tab and looking like just got to make a decision. Very emotional purchase. Um and this current generation is they love to make emotional purchases. So, it's just it's just a different world and it's tough to get your your uh head around it. But um to to answer the last part of your question for us, we we didn't believe that this was going to be a thing because we had heard about it
31:14 for so long. So in April, we did a very light test. Um we did 10 hours of live selling. We just used existing team members. So Brandon um the the gentleman I spoke about earlier, he did he did the shows. Um and we had uh one of our our marketing coordinator was running the back end of it and a couple of us on the marketing team were just watching and
31:37 gathering these learnings and trying to understand it. Um fast forward to to October. Um we have two full-time showrunners that all they do is run the backend of live. Uh we we're doing about 45 hours of programmed content every week. Um, and we have five five hosts, technically four. The fifth is coming on
32:02 uh later later this this month. And we're now almost at full capacity for the single channel. So, we're deciding what a secondary and tertiary channel on whatnot or or maybe it goes elsewhere looks like. Um, so it's it's completely changed in our our approach towards it has completely changed in the uh 6 months we've been doing it. I I'm glad that we went on this detour on on live shopping cuz you're you're
32:31 absolutely right. It it is something that our generation has kind of scoffed at a little bit and and the the results are are speaking for themselves with what you guys are doing and scaling up. And so this has been an outstanding conversation. John, I feel like we could uh we could talk for hours, but want to be
32:52 respectful of your time. Before we close out the show, we have something called the fire round. It's four questions we ask everybody at the end of the episode. Are you ready? Yeah, I am. All right. What is your favorite book? The signal and the noise. Okay. What are your hobbies? Um, sports cards and traveling and food.
33:19 Very nice. What is one thing you do not miss about working for the man? I'm I'm going to go with your uh earlier the the 4 a.m. wake up. I used to wake up at 4:30 every day. I did it for for so many years. Absolutely. Yeah. You you and I agree on that one for sure. Don't don't get me wrong. I still I still wake up at 7, but um it's it's a different life experience for sure. For sure. Three and seven are not the same. Yeah. Uh and final question, what do you
33:52 think sets apart successful entrepreneurs from those who give up, fail, or never get started? Oh, that's a good question. Um I think almost you almost have to have a certain level of crazy. Mhm. Um, so you know, I'm a very risk risk adverse person, but it's uh I almost have to at times like tell myself, okay, like stop being so risk adverse. Think about crazy ideas, crazy stuff. Um just
34:29 critical thinking and and a a slight um just a slight crazy view of reality. So there's got to be something wrong with you to truly execute it. I fully agree with that. You go to enough conferences, you there's a personality type of entrepreneur. Although I do believe that that word is way overused. I hate I hate the word. I do too. I do too. But but you know what I'm talking about that the there's
35:01 a personality type of and they are a little crazy and I would put myself into that category and I am a little crazy. Um and you go to conferences and you meet people that are a little bit crazy and and I don't I I think that's a very good answer and so um outstanding. Great, great answer and that's the first one that I've heard uh going down that road, but I I certainly agree with it. So, John,
35:24 if if people are interested in in learning more about BattlBox, checking out your podcast, what's the best way to do that? Um, so, uh, yeah, Battlbox is b-at lobb.com. You can just Google it or, uh, spell it any which way. It'll it'll pop up. Um podcast is uh awesome pod.com asom pod. Uh again you can just type in asoom pod into Google and it'll come right up.
35:55 And then I have a a a blog called onlineceso.com where um uh do a lot of building in public um a lot of ecom talk. Uh it's a little bit different than most because the the goal there is to um not just not just show the winnings the wins but really highlight the losses because the losses are where you get the learnings and and how you get better and stronger
36:22 and I think uh social media in general but especially like even LinkedIn like you there's a lot of noise out there right um and the noise is people just bragging and talking about how great everything is um and the signal signal. Um, see what I did there? I brought back the reference to the book. Um, that the signal there is uh is that everyone most people have way more
36:47 losses than they have wins. And uh I think the losses form who you are and how you handle situations and how you you push back uh towards them onward. Outstanding. Outstanding. Well, John, thank you so much for your time today. And for our audience, go check out John's podcast. check out Battlbox and everything that he's doing. I'll post the links to all that in the show notes and we'll see you next week.
37:13 Awesome. Thanks, David. Before you go, we wanted to share a new service that Ken and I have been using called Gatida that has made us over $10,000 in Amazon reimbursements. The service requires no monthly subscription, and Gita collects a small percentage of the money they recover for you. It takes less than 5 minutes to set up and works on all Amazon marketplaces.
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